M1855/1870 Bayonet

[Archie R. Lib]

Gents -

Looking for some input here....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110805317450?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

According to most sources I've seen, the M1855 (M1855/70) bayonet would have been struck bright and would have a 25/32" interior diameter to fit the ACW era RMs. When some of the original M1855 bayonets were reconfigured for the Trapdoors they were cold shrunk and compressed to fit the smaller 1873 diameter (47/62") and were most commonly blued.

This bayonet is purported to be an original M1855/70 and has the correct 25/32" inner socket diameter (though with a not-well-considered machine screw replacement). All the other measurements are incidental and indicate compatibility with an ACW era rifled musket, but the markings are some I've never seen before. "LH" on the underside of the blade, "188" across the socket, and what appears to be a deep inspector's cartouche on the blade tang. Also, it is blued and has an odd, flattened tang connecting the socket to the blade.

Does anyone know the provenance of these markings or has anyone seen them before?

If this is in fact an original I'd like to pick it up for my '55.....

Any thoughts or input welcomed.

Rich

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: M1855/1870 Bayonet

Hallo!

I would feel safer also having the measurements of the blade flutes, but here is my best guess.

The measurements would make Model 1866 bayonet for the M1866 Trapdoors.

The bluing would (tend) make it a post 1873 manufacture.

I cannot explain the lack of US markngs, but would guess it was a replacement bayonet, likely for a state guard or miitia as they were made up until 1881.
At times, bayonets were stamped with the "rack number" so as to identify a gun with its bayonet. (This was also seen on the BSAT type Enfields as being hand-made it helped keep the bayonet that fitted the gun with teh right gun... ;) )

Some 90% of the post War bayonets initially stuck with the M1855 design, and one does get some "weird" ones too like Sharps and Spencer socket bayonets. But NUG, the interior socket diameter and length tends to show whether a .69, .58, or a rifle calibre variation.

Curt

[Archie R. Lib]

Re: M1855/1870 Bayonet

Thanks Curt. Very interesting as always....

So I'm thinking then, that since this interior diameter (25/32") is identical to that of the Sprinfield RM line (M1855-M1863), then this is more than likely for a post-war M1866 Trapdoor (or even the short-lived M1865), both of which were basically just modified M1861's, with the same barrel diameter. (The M1865 was a .58 caliber breech loader, and the M1866 took the Springfield RMs and lined them to .50). Would that make sense?

Because if it were for the M1873, then the interior diameter should be smaller....

Keep your powder dry,
Rich

[David Fox]

Re: M1855/1870 Bayonet

Ignorant twit that I am, did they in fact manufacture M.1855-style socket bayonets after 1865 and, if so, why? The post war military budget was zip, there were hundreds-of-thousands of CW spike bayonets already snoozing in federal and state arsenals and, with the sockets initially sleeved then swaged, these served into the 20th Century on rifles to the M.1884. Que pasa?

[Archie R. Lib]

Re: M1855/1870 Bayonet

No you're right David. They used the M1855 bayonet forever, mainly because it fit all of those models which were either .58 caliber breech (the M1865) or lined to .50/.70 (the M1866). Either way the bayonet would fit, as there was no modification to the diameter of the barrel.

But for the 1873 it gets complicated. It was a .45/70 with a smaller barrel diameter. Tons of the old M1855 bayonets were in fact modified to fit - cold shrunk, pressed down to size, sleeved, etc. - then they were usually blued and became the bayonet for the M1873. However, they also manufactured many of them from scratch as well specifically for the trapdoor.

I'm just trying to figure out which one this one is, and whether it would be appropriate for me to use for an ACW impression.... If it is an M1855 that was used post-war on the M1865 or M1866 then there is very likely some ACW period provenance to it. If it is specific and modified to the M1873 then it is probably more like 50/50. Also, there was the question of the markings, which I've never seen and was hoping to get some insight on.

Thx.
R

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: M1855/1870 Bayonet

Hallo!

Dunno.

And yesm it defies common sense.
Other than maybe speculate it was about government waste and lobbyist secured contracts... :) :)

Yes, one would think, that with hundreds of thousands of surplus M1855 Type I's and II's everywhere that could have been easily and economically recyled by bushing them down for the smaller rifles barrels. And the U.S., like Britain with the P1853, did use a number of CW bayonets in this way. But then went on to produce new ones as well.

Curt