Artillery Procedures

[bonniegreenflag]

Yes, to all who read my other post, I do both artillery and infantry. My artillery unit are farbs, and we are reforming. So, we need help. How did artillery act in the field? In streamer artillery, we do all kinds of patterns of firing, such as battery and section fires. How did they really do it? Would they have bothered with taht kind of thing, or we they have just opened up?

Andrew McQuillen

[K Bartsch]

Re: Artillery Procedures

Yes, to all who read my other post, I do both artillery and infantry. My artillery unit are farbs, and we are reforming. So, we need help. How did artillery act in the field? In streamer artillery, we do all kinds of patterns of firing, such as battery and section fires. How did they really do it? Would they have bothered with taht kind of thing, or we they have just opened up?

Andrew McQuillen

Andrew,
Glad to hear you and your comrades are coming around to the more authentic side of the hobby. There is no short answer to your question. Fortunately, quality reprints of artillery manuals abound. French, Barry and Hunt is a great one to get you started down the right path.

Cordially,

[RedCordCO]

Re: Artillery Procedures

Yes, to all who read my other post, I do both artillery and infantry. My artillery unit are farbs, and we are reforming. So, we need help. How did artillery act in the field? In streamer artillery, we do all kinds of patterns of firing, such as battery and section fires. How did they really do it? Would they have bothered with taht kind of thing, or we they have just opened up?

Andrew McQuillen

Sir-

My question is thus- Do you regard your unit farby due to firing procedures or are there more points of being farb in your unit?

If the matter is one of the way guns are fired, let me say this.
There should be a commander of artillery directing your firing at events and his orders should be trickling to your unit. You do not fire piecemeal or randomly for the Hades of it or because you 'feel' like it. There are always rules to be observed in the rate and timing of cannon-firing by all pieces, sections or batteries. If your battery is simply 'letting loose' you are NOT in period and you are a danger to yourselves and all around you. Not to mention any infantry or cavalry coming up to say 'hello'.
Also, most manuals of the period do not abide by the modern three-minute rule which is required for safety when using artillery pieces. It is also a required safety at nearly every event in which artillery is allowed in our modern era. That an improperly-swabbed tube could ignite the powder charge was something not very addressed in the 1860s artillery until you and your piece or section got themselves blown up. Even then, the Army could not spare the precious minutes to modify the standard School of the Piece- whether in drill or battle to include our modern adjustment. However, in this day and age you MUST abide by the three-minute rule. If your unit is not, then it is a safety hazard on field or in demo and your unit would need a big overhaul. I'm just offering things out here. I don't know or have seen your unit in action. If I were or my commanders were able to, we might be able to see the problem that is being labeled as 'farby' and make a decision on it and be able to offer accurate counsel.
If the firing is outside of these points, I can see where there might be an authenticity problem. There are set patterns to firing- whether by piece, section, or battery. The manuals will certainly lead you in the right direction on that.

If the matter lies in uniform or camp issues- that is far more easily fixable. Research can easily point out what should be in your camps and what should not. There is one point that I must bring up. I'm sure some have muttered 'farb' about it from time-to-time.
In both my units, we do store our powder in modern ammunition cans with locks because the risk is too great to have that powder open and accessible to anybody not authorized. It is always well-covered and hidden. Ditto the friction primers. Only those authorized can handle those. I really can see no middle ground as far as safety where those two points are concerned. I am in agreement with my units that these items be required to be stored in modern cans that have locks and are well away and hidden from unauthorized view or handling. If some would consider those two procedures as 'farby' that is their opinion. I would not trade the excellent safety record of both our units to be achingly 'correct' in that account. We do employ dummy rounds to show the public but very few outside our battery ever see our powder 'blank' charges.

I'd like to hear back from you and others on this thread. It is proving to be interesting reading.

R. Burchardt
4th TX Regt. Artillery/ Artillery Co. of NM

Rob, please sign your full name, first and last, to all posts - Mike Chapman

[BHoover]

Re: Artillery Procedures

In streamer artillery, we do all kinds of patterns of firing, such as battery and section fires. How did they really do it? Would they have bothered with taht kind of thing, or we they have just opened up?

Andrew McQuillen

As Keith said, there is no short answer to your question. One thing you can do though, is to find an authentic artillery unit and work with them to see what is correct. Several groups run artillery schools as well, although not all of these are correct either. There is so much more to being correct than just how you fire. Correct drill, correct uniforms and equipment, correct maneuvre, correct command structure, etc.. All are very important, and can't be changed in a day.

There is a short answer to part of your question though. Fire by Battery, Fire by Section, and Fire by the Piece are all correct ways to fire. However I've seen nothing to indicate that period artillery commands included such modern nonsense as "ripple fire" or when I heard an artillery commander at G'burg 135 have his odd numbered guns "ripple fire" from the left and then the even numbered guns "ripple fire" from the right.

Without seeing your particular group I can't make specific comments, but in general, a couple of other things that would profit most mainstream artillery units are to "shed the red", to leave behind all that wonderful slat backed furniture and cast iron that they take because they have the trailer and truck, and to find out the correct amount of officers and NCOs for artillery. (Here's a hint... a six gun battery has a Capt., so if you have less than six guns, you should be commanded by a Lt.)

Hope this helps. If you want more ideas please feel free to email me.

[hardeesboy]

Re: Artillery Procedures

[QUOTE=BHoover] There is so much more to being correct than just how you fire. Correct drill, correct uniforms and equipment, correct maneuvre, correct command structure, etc..
a couple of other things that would profit most mainstream artillery units are to "shed the red", to leave behind all that wonderful slat backed furniture and cast iron that they take because they have the trailer and truck, and to find out the correct amount of officers and NCOs for artillery. (Here's a hint... a six gun battery has a Capt., so if you have less than six guns, you should be commanded by a Lt.)


Here is a nice image of the 4th US Arty. Notice the sack coats the majority of them are wearing and the lack of trim.

[RedCordCO]

Re: Artillery Procedures

[QUOTE=hardeesboy]

There is so much more to being correct than just how you fire. Correct drill, correct uniforms and equipment, correct maneuvre, correct command structure, etc..
a couple of other things that would profit most mainstream artillery units are to "shed the red", to leave behind all that wonderful slat backed furniture and cast iron that they take because they have the trailer and truck, and to find out the correct amount of officers and NCOs for artillery. (Here's a hint... a six gun battery has a Capt., so if you have less than six guns, you should be commanded by a Lt.)


Here is a nice image of the 4th US Arty. Notice the sack coats the majority of them are wearing and the lack of trim.

I am given to wonder if those 4th Arty boys perhaps retained their trimmed-out shells for dress occasions. Perhaps in the same way the regular Army required the silly 'Shakos' as dress headgear and the really ineffectual 'shoulder scales' on a dress uniform. Being a Federal, not state, entity I'm wondering if that isn't the reason for wearing sacks in-field. I'm also thinking that perhaps things were different in different regions of the country. I'm going to ask my CO's about the shell jacket question here in the West [Four Corners] and see what they know. Should be interesting in the response department.
While a trimmed, shell jacket is one handsome piece of clothing it is rather tight and hot and not well-suited to the rigors of cannon drill and firing- JMHO.

Rob Burchardt
[Yes, I just caught the need to post my full name. Sorry!]

[bonniegreenflag]

Re: Artillery Procedures

Thanks for all of the good advice. We are already a very safe unit, and we follow the standard school of the piece. As far as procedures go, we dont seem to be farby except for one thing-no horses. But thats a work in progress. As for authentic uniforms and gear, we are not yet ready as a unit to attend the more authentic events, though several members are doing very well and the others are starting to wise up. We never did ripple fire or other theatrics, only firing by piece, battery, and section. Our orders are well researched by a member of the Order of St. Barbra and a devoted historian. When i said"opening up," I ment did the commanders usually pick targets and give the gunners choice of fire or did they have a more formal and controlled method of firing? Its just which is more like the way they did it. We are always watchful for the fooloish infantryman or "yaller dog" who might get in our way, and we are careful to wath the other guns. I must say, I feel that when we start going to better events, the other branches will treat us like real soldiers, instead of soind makers.

Andrew McQuillen

[BHoover]

Re: Artillery Procedures

We are already a very safe unit, and we follow the standard school of the piece.

Andrew, I spent several years as the AIG for artillery in the N/SA (i.e. chief safety officer for artillery) so I've seen all sorts of drill. One thing I can tell you is that there is not a "standard" drill in use. As Keith mentioned earlier in this thread, French, Barry, and Hunt was the Federal artillery manual in use at the time, and R. Snowden Andrews used that to crib a Confederate manual while he was in the hospital recovering from a wound (a picture of his jacket showing the damage from the shell that struck him is in EOG). There are reprints of both available, but most reenactors base their drill on what they have seen around them, rather than from a knowledge of the drill manuals.

The drill from those manuals is not perfect, but it's pretty darn good. Several years ago some of us in the N/SA used the period manuals to create our modern drill, and we only had to add a few things (perhaps 10% of the total) to make it safe for modern standards.

As far as procedures go, we dont seem to be farby except for one thing-no horses.

Not trying to throw cold water here, but from my observations most mainstream artillery units have a lot of room to improve in their proceedures. For example, most have no idea that artillery marched in a totally different fashion than did infantry. If you have not marched "by detachment" then you have a lot of work to do in that department. (And again, it's all in the period manuals).

Another example, an artillery company street is nothing at all like an infantry street. In situations where a company street is appropriate, have you tried doing the correct method from the drill manuals?

Artillery often marched and went into battle using bugle calls. Have you tried that? (and they are not the same calls as the infantry uses)

Still another: does your unit practice limber drill? Even with no horses, the manuals show drill using the limber so you can start limbered, move onto the field, do an "Action, FRONT" command and go into battle, etc. Then there is manuevre with several guns, each limbered. There are at least sixteen ways an artillery battery travelling limbered can go into action, depending on the desired front, etc.

I mentioned officers and NCOs in an earlier post. The correct numbers are a cpl. for each gun as gunner, every two cpls. should have one sgt over them. Each Section is commanded by a Lt, with a single Cpt over the whole battery. I don't know how many times I've seen a lone gun commanded by a Cpt. (or even a major) but this is not correct.

I could go on for a long time (can you guess this is an issue near and dear to my heart? :) ) but as Keith said, there is no short answer. And please don't think I'm trying to pick on your unit. As I said, I don't know a thing about them. I'm just making comments about what most mainstream artillery do.

I'm glad your group is trying to improve. We need more authentic artillery units because the good ones are few and far between

[BHoover]

Re: Artillery Procedures

In both my units, we do store our powder in modern ammunition cans with locks because the risk is too great to have that powder open and accessible to anybody not authorized. It is always well-covered and hidden. Ditto the friction primers. Only those authorized can handle those. I really can see no middle ground as far as safety where those two points are concerned. I am in agreement with my units that these items be required to be stored in modern cans that have locks and are well away and hidden from unauthorized view or handling.

This is another issue which has a perfectly correct period solution, and no need for modern substitutes. Each cannon should have at least one limber chest (ammunition box) and that box should be secured with a lock. This box holds the rounds to be fired, and the friction primers.

If you are talking about storing modern cans of powder during a event, then you are already doing something unsafe. The only reason to store powder in modern cans is if you are rolling your rounds at the event. I know that many units do this but it is totally unsafe. Rounds should be pre-rolled before you leave home so that they can be made uniformly, and in a safe environment.

Roll the rounds at home, put them in the limber chest, and lock it. It's period correct, and it's safe.

[RedCordCO]

Re: Artillery Procedures

This is another issue which has a perfectly correct period solution, and no need for modern substitutes. Each cannon should have at least one limber chest (ammunition box) and that box should be secured with a lock. This box holds the rounds to be fired, and the friction primers.

If you are talking about storing modern cans of powder during a event, then you are already doing something unsafe. The only reason to store powder in modern cans is if you are rolling your rounds at the event. I know that many units do this but it is totally unsafe. Rounds should be pre-rolled before you leave home so that they can be made uniformly, and in a safe environment.

Roll the rounds at home, put them in the limber chest, and lock it. It's period correct, and it's safe.

Sir-
Allow me to clarify my posting.
While we store rounds in our limber chest when we are actively firing, we do not make practice of always keeping those rounds in the limber chest if the safer alternative is in the locked ammo can and well-hidden in a tent [i.e. thunderstorm imminent, overt security concerns, or show-and-tell time for the visiting public]. Access to the charges is strictly enforced. In the case of the public in the camps- we never have blank charges in the limber chest whenever the public is in our camp. The risk of the random smoker coming near, and the like, is too great. Even the most authentic camp in the world should have a place to keep rounds safely stored AWAY from the public when they are that close. The obvious alternative is to keep the limber chest closed and locked at all times. Sometimes we do that. Other times the risk is too great.
However, most of the public do like a peek inside to see our dummy rounds and how they were stored. That is why we store live, blank rounds away from the public at, admittedly, most events we attend.
Yes, we do have a padlock for the limber chest as well whose key resides with the chief of piece. We still make the primary transport to and from events with the rounds and primers in seperate, locked and secured modern ammo cans in a secured vehicle. We NEVER transport those rounds completely to and from an event in the limber box itself when it is on any sort of conveyance.
The rounds in my groups are ALWAYS premade. We certainly never would make rounds at an event. That's why an accurate tally must be made before an event of how many rounds to utilize per given event. Once the quota is finished for the event or day, our battery is finished firing. If somebody has fault with it, that would be their problem and not ours. Our commanding officers make the final determination on the number of rounds our pieces will fire.

I realize your endeavor is to try and enlighten. My point was simply to clarify the procedures in both batteries that I am proud to be part of.

Rob Burchardt
4th TX Regt. Artillery/ Artillery Co. of NM

[BHoover]

Re: Artillery Procedures

The rounds in my groups are ALWAYS premade. We certainly never would make rounds at an event.

I commend you. If scares me to see how many units will be sitting around a table with open flames only a few feet away as they roll the rounds for the next day's battle. It sounds as if your unit does an excellent job of keeping safe.

As far as the other, I guess it's a difference in philosophy. We don't usually park our limber in a camp, although we often sleep under the gun, so in that sense it is in "camp". But we don't normally leave it open. If someone wants to look at dummy rounds, the chief of piece will unlock the box, take out the rounds, show them, put them back, and relock the box. You're right... if we made a practice of leaving the box unlocked and unsupervised then it would be necessary to remove the live rounds to a place of safety.

[SCTiger]

Re: Artillery Procedures

Bruce, everyone:

What about the number of guns and types out in the field? I have seen events where the artillery personnel outnumbered the infantry and cavalry. The cannons are a big draw for the crowds, but why bring 36 cannons to a battle that had only 6 for both sides? We worked out a ratio in Ferguson's that 1 actual battle cannon equals 6 reenactment cannons. :)

Having the wrong type of cannon or mortar at a event can be just as farby as having too many. Every unit that owns a Mountain Howitzer or Coehorn wants to add his "fire and fury" and collect the bounty. The cannon displays are a huge draw, but if the battle was originally fought by Cavalry or Infantry, then those elements should take center stage. If the artillery wasn't involved in the battle at all, then they could give a "living history" demonstration away from the battlefield. I know it's boring but, more accurate.

The last thing we need is another "static" artillery unit complete with cannoneers that can't push a limbered cannon anywhere much less work a "mounted" team. If all of Bruce's suggetsions were enforced then the artillery could at least look right, even if they didn't have horses. IMO "honest" artillery is just as much work and physical exertion as Infantry or Cavalry if not more.
Try pushing a cannon with limber up a ramp at Fort Gaines. Even the Infantry that helped us walked away with a better appreciation for artillery work.

[bonniegreenflag]

Re: Artillery Procedures

We have made an attempt at marching properly, but we do need LOTS of work. We do have a good drill around the limber however. This is great info, we will look better this year because of it. I had never herd of a differnt camp setup, but il definatly find out more about it.

Andrew McQuillen

[bonniegreenflag]

Re: Artillery Procedures

To anyone in my unit, I appologize for representing us so foolheartedly. I said something very offensive in y first post here, but I ment nothing by it. We are a supreb group, and I consider evryone in it my friend. I feel very badly about this, and will never make such a mistake again. I understand any anger twoards my post. When I said what I said, I ment we are new and improving. I used the word "farb" to liberally. Everyone in our unit endeavours to improve, and we are already leaders of the artillery community. I have much to learn, as was proved by my post. My kit is just like anyone elses, and I have comparabely no knowledge of artillery to our leaders. I again appologize, and will openly take criticism. Private messages and e-mails are welcome. I will never try to represent us as a group again without authorization.

Andrew McQuillen