P58 Enfield and the N-SSA

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: P58 Enfield and the N-SSA

You could probably pick up one of those Zouave rifles cheep. One of those would be perfect for N-SSA.

[maillemaker]

Re: P58 Enfield and the N-SSA

There may be some N-SSA teams that regulate what firearms they want/allow, but I never knew of any. Each lad was (is) free to shoot any SAC Approved custom-built, commercially mass prodcued, or arms with swapped competiton barrels as he chooses. Or original for that matter.

This. I would be surprised if there are N-SSA shooting teams that require shorter rifles in the musket competition. Unless you are in a location that has a plethora of shooters so that they have the luxury of having enough shooters to make both A and B teams, I figure most teams are lucky to be getting new shooters at all.

I shoot a P53 Enfield with Whitacre barrel in N-SSA competition. I recently purchased a P58 Pedersoli but do not yet have it sighted in.

I would verify that your team actually requires a specific kind of rifle in the musket shooting category.

Steve

[MuleyGil]

Re: P58 Enfield and the N-SSA

"I’m just disappointed that they combine the “short” rifle muskets (ie rifles) and the “long” rifle muskets in the same category. With the 1853 Enfield and the 1861 Springfield making up the largest numbers of shoulder arms during the Civil War, I had hoped otherwise."

The N-SSA members tend to shoot whatever arm fits the individual the best. On my team, one of our best shots uses a 1853 Enfield. The length of the barrel doesn't affect his shooting or reloading in the least.

I shoot an 1858 Enfield, made by Parker-Hale. I can shoot, reload, and miss with the best of them!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: P58 Enfield and the N-SSA

Hallo!

This has drifted a bit off AC target or tangent, with N-SSA practices.

But, there some few threads or yarns between competitive target shooters' choices of the rifle-musket versus the rifle. In that, to be brief and over generalized... that the shorter, heavy barreled rifle was once considered superior for the light infantryman/skirmisher/rifleman. sharpshooter than the rifle-musket.

The old N-SSA argument that a rifle can be reloaded more quickly than a rifle-musket is indeed true. For me it was nine well-aimed deliberate small target-quality shots in two minutes with a R, but only seven with a RM. But I did not shoot as well with a R as I did with a RM.
In the N-SSA, where often the targeting comes down to two or four per man, and the bell goes off with a loaded gun basically giving a free shot other than in the aiming and firing... one would only "need" either two or four shots to clear one's targeting.

;) :) :)

Modern N-SSA competition aside, IMHO the comparisons between RM's and R's is interesting as to the real and/or imagined superiority of the rifle over the rifle-musket in Period use.

Curt
Who shot a M1855 Type II RM far better than the M1855, M1841, or British P1858 R's

[Michael McComas]

Re: P58 Enfield and the N-SSA

Terry,

The "rules" a team imposes are up to them--the N-SSA is an association of teams that are chartered independently. If they say they "all" use one model of rifle, it may be so they can help a new shooter come up to speed by sharing reloading equipment, etc. If you're not hung up on winning medals, you are welcome to shoot whatever you like in the Individual (paper target) part of the competition, and then shoot the Company (team) competitions with a different rifle. In team competitions, your teammates are relying on you to shoot as quickly and accurately as you can. In Individuals, you can shoot as slow as you wish.

There may be others that are less competitive and may be in need of members. Ask around. Don't let one encounter put you off from the sport. And please do remember, the difference between N-SSA and reenacting is analogous to the difference between NASCAR and your daily commute. They both have an engine and four wheels, but one is a sport while the other is daily life.

Cheers,

Michael
-shoots a Whitney "good and serviceable" version of the M1841, a Parker-Hale P58, a P-H P53, and my grandfather's Zouave, depending on my whim, but sticks with the Whitney in team events, because it shoots straight.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: P58 Enfield and the N-SSA

Hallo!

An excellent point, and advice.

"With the 1853 Enfield and the 1861 Springfield making up the largest numbers of shoulder arms during the Civil War, I had hoped otherwise."


I would just add that...

At one time, it was contrary to AC policies to discuss the N-SSA because it was, is, a costumed modern competitive shooting organization first and "history" is NUG pushed way down the list of priorities. While there a few individual exceptions, in the N-SSA competitive shooting with tweaked and enhanced CW weaponry is what the association is about more so than any fine or finer points of recreating history in impressions, uniforms, camping, and daily activities of CW soldiers.

NOT a negative or criticism, just apples and oranges.

My N-SSA unit once had a potential recruit who was a reenactor. He came to our first business meeting to join, and was shocked and floored that we all did not have the same uniform, gear, or guns. And to quote him. "You all don't wear the same shoes?" He went to his first N-SSA event (skirmish), and decided it was not for him.

Curt
17 year veteran of the N-SSA

[Nighthawk]

Re: P58 Enfield and the N-SSA

I have been both reenacting and shooting in the N-SSA for thirty years. I have owned many types of period weapons over the years and did not see any appreciable difference in time/hits from a rifle to a rifled musket. I tend to shoot at a steady pace not panicked fast, but not slow either. Our unit is on the authentic end of Curt's sliding scale. We do not shoot guns with 2 inch high front sights, or use bullet configuations that did not exist during the war. We also shoot guns that are unaltered from their original configuration, (no "fantasy" Artillery models). We do this while authentically clothed , some actually wearing bedrolls and/or backpacks while competing. As pertinent to the thread, rifle vs. rifle musket, I would go with what the unit actually used as much as possible.
Being a Confederate gun slut, I have competed/reenacted with: P-53 Enfield, P-56 Enfield rifle, US m1855 rifle musket, Fayetteville rifle, Georgia Armory rifle, original Lorenz in 54 cal., Richmond Mounted Infantry Rifle, Richmond Rifle musket, Rifled and rifle sighted US M1842 rifled musket, Cook and Bros. Athens production cavalry carbine, second model Maynard carbine, Smith carbine.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: P58 Enfield and the N-SSA

Hallo!

Herr Paul: My compliments, and my hat is off to you and your unit for doing, being, so!

My N-SSA unit was an Ohio Sharpshooter company, originally armed with Spencer Rifles... ;) :) So, the "recreated" allowed any RM or R or "Artillery Rifle" of choice.

I do have a curiosity question.. how do you overcome the sight issues associated with shooting 50 yard targets with sights minimally graduated at 100 yards?

Curt

[Nighthawk]

Re: P58 Enfield and the N-SSA

Well, It's a challenge to do so, but I adjust/play with bullet weights, sometimes using different base plugs to accomplish this. Rather than install an overly high front sight, I'll deepen the rear sight v. I also adjust (where possible), the band tightness, adjust the tang screw, and try various powder charges. Sometimes though, as I'm sure you know, in order to keep the gun in its original configuration, ya just have to shoot using "Kentucky windage". Some guns respond better than others to the detuning required to shoot consistent groups at much closer distances than the arm was designed for.
We try to use bullet configurations that are as close as possible to originals. One guy in my unit, uses greased paper patched Pritchett bullets in his P-53 type II. I stay well away from "ash cans", etc. usually using the Lyman 575213 OS, or the new style, or even my old Parker Hale mould. Now if I could find an accurate Wilkinson mould for my Lorenz...........

[Michael McComas]

Re: P58 Enfield and the N-SSA

I shoot a lot of original British guns in another organization that doesn't allow us to change the sights. We use "fine bead sight" to hit 50-yard targets with 200-yard sights, with just the tip of the front sight showing at the bottom of the V. Drop your point of aim a few inches and Bullseye!

[csuniforms]

Re: P58 Enfield and the N-SSA

Hello-- The NSSA is a very misunderstood part of Civil War recreated History-- We have the Miller award for the most authentic skirmisher and team-- I wish all of you could be there for the Miller Award-- the uniforms and accoutrements along with research is phenomenal-- As to what type of musket is allowed on a team-- You can shoot whatever you want as long as you can "hit" the targets-- If you want to shoot a three band Enfield-- go ahead-- your team does not care as long as you can pop targets at 50 and 100 yards-- And yes-- some of the team uniforms are "costumes"-- especially the older teams-- who now wear the same uniform as they donned 40 years ago as kind of "tradition"-- We do have very authentically dressed units in the NSSA and we have many collectors and researchers in our ranks-- so don't count us out!

CSuniforms
Tom Arliskas