Dimick Target Rifles- information/pictures needed

[Misplaced Rebel]

Hello all,

Chris here. I was just wondering if you fine people might help me find (or if you know of some, direct me to) some information regarding the Dimick Target rifles of the 66th IL 'Western Sharpshooters.' I am considering a project to make an approximation of one of these as a teaching tool in my presentations in the ACWSA for Civilian target rifles as used by the Northern sharpshooters during the WBTS, using a commonly available 'kit' gun as a base. I know the 66th IL (a mainstream unit, IIRC) includes them in their impression, but they use altered Lyman GPRs and the image they provide is of one of their 'reproductions,' I think, whose accuracy I cannot verify. Unfortunately, I cannot find pictures of the original guns anywhere, nor any images of the 'unique' ammunition (I saw a referrence to a 'Swiss Chausseur Bullet' on another forum, but no image) it used. Also, any reccomendations about other such target rifles (except for the Sharps- there are enough of those on the skirmish line, so I don't have to bother... ;) ), how to reproduce them or other such information is welcome, but I would like to put a 'priority'- if you will- on information about the Dimicks.

Thanks in advance!

Guten Nacht und Aufwiedersehen!

-Chris Thulien

[tenfed1861]

Re: Dimick Target Rifles- information/pictures needed

Sir,after a quick internet search,I was able to find an article on Dimick himself.It is a two page bio is mostly about Dimick and his rifle making prior to the war,and a few paragraphs about his wartime experiences.If you look at the bibliography,that might be able to help you with getting more info.
Hope this helps.

http://asoac.org/bulletins/87_rapp_dimick.pdf

[tenfed1861]

Re: Dimick Target Rifles- information/pictures needed

Also found a few photos and info on the rifle at the Springfield Armory Museum.
http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/VFPCG...TABASE=objects,

Hope this can help.

[Misplaced Rebel]

Re: Dimick Target Rifles- information/pictures needed

Thanks, Cullen! (I hope you don't mind if I call you by your given...) I really appreciate the links!

The picture of the rifle is very interesting, if only for the fact that the rifles that Dimick delivered were only bought up, and that this was but one example of a variety he supplied. I think I might be able to utilize a Lyman GPR as a base quite successfully- the stock shape is perfect (assuming one removes the cheek piece- easily done with a rasp), and so is the buttplate. The trigger guard could easily be fabricated, or left as is, as they share many of the same features and are seen on many period sporting guns. The nose cap could easily be changed out. The original example also has a long tang- the Lyman GPR also shares a similar feature. The lock itself is different than the example gun, but it was a common sporting lock style which is perfect- besides, I can't rebolster a gun, I'm no professional like Todd W. :) This gets curiouser and curiouser by the minute... ;)

Thoughts?

Thanks again,

-Chris

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Dimick Target Rifles- information/pictures needed

Hallo!

Complicated...

IIRC, Dimick ended up delivering 472 various rifles out of the 1,000 to Birge. .40 seemed to be the NUG calibre.

As with his competitor, Samuel HAwken, Dimick ran a shop with about two dozen gunmakers/gunsmiths. And like Hawken "plains rifles," aside from a few salient features like the distinctive Dimick trigger guard, walnut cheek piece-less stock, and poured pewter nose cap... they varied a bit- especially between the target rifles and the hunting rifles.

Let's see if this works... an original Dimick:



And a Lyman GPR:



And here is a link to a Birge-attributed Dimick target rifle:

http://www.civilwarmo.org/gallery#item/CWMO-13

At a certain skill level, one can rework Lyman "Great Plains Rifle" by removing the classic S. Hawken beaver-tail cheek rest, changing the forestock key escutcheons, cutting back/elongating the wrist into the comb, taking off teh forestock "perch belly" profile, swapping out sights, adding a poured pewter nose cap, and adding a distinctive Dimick trigger guard such as from Track of the Wolf. The Lyman hammer is actually so far from a true Hawken hammer, it can work as is.



The one factor that cannot easily be changed, is having a .50 bore. The lock plate profile could be reduced, but it would require cosmetic wood working "repairs" to fill in the gaps in the lock mortise. Teh percussion bhoster on the Lyman is not much like the Hawken shops, but it would be a task to
repalce teh barrel in .40 AND try to find a more "Dimick" looking bolster/breech section.

But, if one could find a used Lyman GPR, this could be a doable cost and time effective project, and not be as "farby" as it initially sounds.
IMHO, it would be making a nicer sow's ear out of a worser sow's ear. But far "better" than using a classic 1850's Samuel Hawken plains rifle for CW military.

I have a left-handed Lyman GPR kit still in the box. And this may just give me an idea to make something "different" for plinking.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but there is really not too many Sharps Target Rifles in reenacting, as there are no repro's. ;) :)

Curt

[Misplaced Rebel]

Re: Dimick Target Rifles- information/pictures needed

Hey Curt! I was wondering when you would chime in on this... :)

Well, IMHO, when you think about it, between the image of the rifle that Cullen provided, the one you have, and the GPR, the modifications you suggested could produce a pretty accurate repro. If you stopped short of redoing the barrel, this could be a really quick project. The article Cullen provided does mention that Dimick used the same style of locks as provided to the Hawken Bros. by T. Gibbons on some of his guns. I've been looking around for a .40 barrel, but nothing has an appropriate bolster/breech, or fits the hooked breech of the GPR, for that matter. Creating such a thing would be, I think, very expensive for some. On regards to caliber, however, the article also notes that guns taking a ball between 1/2 and 1 full ounce were accepted and used. The rifle at Springfield is, after all, a .55 caliber gun, so maybe .50 caliber is a reasonable proposition. One could have the .50 barrel re-lined to .40 caliber, methinks? As there were a variety of calibers issued, maybe the .50 caliber bore isn't as much a problem as one might think?

Well, in reenacting, there may not be too many Sharps (of any stripe), but there are quite a few in the ACWSA (similar to the NSSA). And I'm tired of tree frogs, anyway... ;)

Cheers,

-Chris

[David Fox]

Re: Dimick Target Rifles- information/pictures needed

Might be worth checking with Oklahoma's www.therifleshoppe.com . They manufacture an amazing array of replica firearm oddments. I've had great luck with Pennsylvanian Bobby Hoyt, owner-operator of the Freischutz shop lining barrels. He can also fabricate them. This project could be done in stages, as finances alow....

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Dimick Target Rifles- information/pictures needed

Hallo!

Different historians have different opinions...

I think what might be going on is that some of them (incorrectly) look at the particular "model" (to use that term loosely as Dimick had 26 makers under his "Western Emporium" shop) for just his "American Deer Rifle" which was .40, and want to make that "standard" for all of the 583 (?) targert and plains rifles delivered by Dimick made by him and competitors.

In brief and to over generalize...

Fremont was a remarkable "scrounger." What the initial deal was was for 1,000 rifles specified to be between half an ounce and an ounce. Without getting out my balls-per-pound charts, IIRC that would be roughly about .32ish to .69 calibre.

And what Dimick did was, to empty his racks trying to scrounge inventory and make new guns to fill the demand starting with 150 and ending up around 583 the difference being a few they produced but the balance being other maker's guns Dimick scrounged himself. (I would have to check the lists in "Arming the Suckers" for example as the 66th went down to IIRC just 15 when they went to Springfields and the few Henry's in 1864.

"Target" rifles and "Hunting" were NUG in the mid to upper .30's to low to mid .40's by the middle of the 19th century as dangerous large game animals and hostile Indians were gone east of the Mississippi (exceptions so noted). And a nominal .40 bore was ideal for paper targets or deer.

Sooo, still being overly brief, a .50 is fine enough and IMHO not worth replacing the barrel just to have a .40 "Deer Rifle."

Here is a Dimick target rifle where the customer non NUG went with a .50:









Curt

[Misplaced Rebel]

Re: Dimick Target Rifles- information/pictures needed

Hey Curt,

Thanks for all of the info! Everyone else who has replied, thanks so much for all of your help! One day, in the near future, hopefully I can get this project rolling.

Curt et. al, do you guys think Hoyt could do a simple re-breach of the original Lyman barrels that would fit in the hooked tang system they use? It looks to me, at least from the pics, that these guns used a 'hooked breech' much like the GPR and other guns of the period. Maybe he could just make a new breach with the appropriate shape that would fit the stock inlet, and then one could reshape the lockplate around it? The GPRs have exceptionally well-made barrels that are very accurate, and I would like to maintain that. Maybe rebreaching the existing barrel is the right way to go? What do you think Mr. Hoyt would charge for such a project?

Thanks,

-Chris

[Misplaced Rebel]

Re: Dimick Target Rifles- information/pictures needed

Also, where are you getting these pictures? A member of another forum I am with is asking for pictures of various Dimicks. I think he'd be ecstatic to see these. Could I possibly get copies emailed or PM'ed to me?

Thanks,

-Chris

[David Fox]

Re: Dimick Target Rifles- information/pictures needed

Give Mr. Hoyt a call: 1-717-643-6696. I spoke to him earlier this week. Intend to visit his shop, about ten miles from Gettysburg, next week (for the first time), to pick-up a newly lined .56-56 Spencer. He stretches barrels and does a world of work for the North-South guys. Although I've never used him, Dan Whitacre likewise lines and otherwise produces and works on muzzleloader barrels and is well thought of. He's in Winchester, Virginia. 1-540-877-1468. Has a good website at www.whitacremachineshop.com

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: Dimick Target Rifles- information/pictures needed

You can email me if you want, I have an extensive collection of 14th MO / 66th Illinois artifacts. The Guns issued to Birges men came in all calibers, not just one. The guns were serial numbered on the muzzle of the barrel and had a corresponding mold with the same number. We have found them in calipers from .36 all the way up to .69 cal.

There were close to 1000 guns issued to Birges men, but not all came from Dimick, but all were basically the same half stock configuration. Some were singled keyed, some were doubled. Some had patch boxes, some did not. In the written accounts, one soldier mentioned that out of 1000 guns, nearly two matched. Even the barrel lengths were different.

In your attempt to reborn the barrel, ther is not need to change it.

You can email me at john@fortdonelsonrelics.com and I can forward you images of Dimicks actually used by the 66th Illinois.

John Walsh

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: Dimick Target Rifles- information/pictures needed

Here are some pics of the projectiles - which I believe in the original post you had questions about. You'll notice that the calibers on these range significantly - in this particular picture they are .36 all the way up to .68cal - all of these have been recovered in the Dover, Tn area.

John Walsh

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: Dimick Target Rifles- information/pictures needed

Here is the more famous image of a group of 14th Missouri / 66th Illinois - The Hollis Brothers from Elgin, Ill. You'll notice the difference in the weapons that I mentioned above.

John Walsh

[john.vansickle]

Re: Dimick Target Rifles- information/pictures needed

Just a suggestion here... Has anyone considered using TotW's Vincent rifle with the 15/16" barrel? The most challenging thing would be fitting a snail breech but even that's not too difficult. There are many competent black powder gunsmiths out there so don't feel bound to use only specific builders. Keep in mind that these were civilian sporter rifles intended primarily going for the western trade that may or may not have been "militarized' depending on the specific arm. Also, by the period we're talking about here, the Hawkin brothers, who were in business from the 1820s until 1858 when they sold out, only built a small percentage of firearms on the market at the time. Other makers included Dimick, Leman, Goulcher, Henry, the Vincent brothers as well as other lesser known builders. It appears that although each maker had a basic archetypal design, the Hawkins brothers was the most standardized in appearance. There were no major changes until Gemmer, who bought out the Hawkins in 1858 fitted a Sharps breech to the rifle. Even then it still looked like any other Hawkens' rifle... just with a Sharps action. The reason for the variation in standardization was that most of the makers obtained component parts from other manufacturers. An example of this is how gun makers would buy locks from cmakers like Goulcher.

As a matter of note, there are no modern "Hawkins" rifles that looks like an original. The closest is the Lyman GPR but even that falls short in details. I'm afraid the only way to have a truly correct rifle would be to take the approach of other reenacting periods and build it from scratch. For years Civil War reenacters have accepted repro guns at face value "out of the box" and only recently have taken authenticizing these firearms seriously. The cost of building is not prohibitive as it may seem considering what the cost of a fully defarbed rifle musket is. Every antique shop in Ohio seems to have at least one mid-Nineteenth Century, half-stock percussion rifle. These typically run in the $250.00 - $350.00 range. While these might not be viable for battle reenactments, they would be more than appropriate for living histories as well as good prototypes for reproductions. After all, what happened to all those originals? My assumption is that they were sold off at some point and ended up in the civilian market where their martial past was lost to posterity.

Sorry to be so long-winded,
John Van Sickle