RD jackets and trousers, what were the most common colours?

[max]

Hello to all the members of the AC forum. I’m new here. I have 12 years of experience in German WWII re-enactment-living history, but I’m absolutely new and green in the ACW.
I’m starting my impression and trying to help some friends of mine to start a little group in Spain. I have been reading the articles and posts in this forum for the last two weeks and the more I read here the more doubts I have. One of them it’s referring to the Richmond Depot issue jackets and trousers during the first half of 1863. I have learned the most common material for the jackets and trousers at that time was the Jean cloth, but I’m wandering which method was more common for the colour. The dyeing of garments or the natural fleece colored ones? And if there were some kind of dye (Logwood?) or natural fleece that was more common than the others?

I have used the search function and I have found some quite interesting articles, especially one referring to socks colours and dye, but not the answer to my doubt.

I apologise if you have already addressed the topic elsewhere in the forum and I have not been able to found it.

Thanks!

[GarrettG1993]

Re: RD jackets and trousers, what were the most common colours?

Just depends on time and place. Typically thse who study uniforms break down Richmond produced clothing into 3 styles; the type I, II and III. Most type I's look to have been made of jean, cassimere, sattinet or other domestic cloth. The type II's until mid to late 1862 were likewise produced mainly in domestic cloth. However, from the mid-late part of 1863 to the end of the war nearly all Richmond jackets were produced of imported English Kersey (BG Kersey). There are several type II's of kersey and all surviving type III's are of English cloth. The CS POW photos taken at White House Landing show that most of the soldiers were wearing dark jackets (Kersey) and lighter trousers (domestic cloth). English trousers were also issued in numbers as early as 1863. These trousers are a lighter blue, but not sky blue. You must also remember that contract jackets from firms such as Peter Tait & Co. were imported as well. Several states also did pretty well equipping their own soldiers even late in the war (North Carolina and Georgia). I would reccomend picking a specific unit and then researching where they were and what they were issued and when. It is alot easier to put together a kit when you know what you are looking for.


Regards,
Garrett Glover

[guad42]

Re: RD jackets and trousers, what were the most common colours?

Juan,

There are a number of good books that get referenced here on the AC frequently. Perhaps the best set to get started with are the Echoes of Glory books that feature a volume on CS and a volume on Union uniforms, equipment, weapons, etc. These books have color photographs of numerous surviving original uniforms, include some of the various RD jackets, etc. Garrett makes good points though on researching the uniforms and equipment of specific units at various points in the war.

-Sam Dolan

[Philip cav]

Re: RD jackets and trousers, what were the most common colours?

Another fine book to read is "Confederate Gray And Butternut Brown". This might answer your question better than I can.

[max]

Re: RD jackets and trousers, what were the most common colours?

Thank you for your replies. I'm finishing reading the book Cadet Gray and Butternut Brown, the book describes the uniformity of the troops of ANV in June and July 1863 as a mixture of shades of gray and butternut. What makes me think the vast amount of colored butternut jackets and pants could be due to the RD issuing large quantities of uniforms in Logwood dyed color, and those uniforms slowly degrading to butternut colour. Another possibility is that RD was distributing large quantities of natural colored fleece in various shades of brown in jean cloth. Or maybe some production was made in Logwood and some other in Natural Fleece colour depending on the available stocks. My original question is if they exist any evidence of a predominant system of colouring the RD issue uniforms, (Vegetal, Mineral dye or Natural Fleece Colour) and if one predominant system existed, wich colour was the more common (f.ex. Logwood, Brown Jean,).

I’m not talking about the civilian or state issue jackets or trousers sent in the same time period to the ANV troops. I’m only centering the question in the RD issued uniforms in the first half of 1863.

Sam and Philip, thank you both for the advice, I will put Echoes of Glory in my wishlist.

Please excuse me if I make grammatical mistakes but this is not my native language.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: RD jackets and trousers, what were the most common colours?

Juan,

I do not know if the answer to your question exists. The color of clothing being issued from Richmond was dictated by the source of cloth coming in. It is my understanding that it came from either sources overseas (English army cloth, aka "Blue-Gray Kersey") or local/regional woolen mills (wool:cotton blends, such as jean, cassimere, satinette, etc). In my dim and fading memory, I recall seeing a discussion/paper somewhere regarding what mills were supplying the Richmond Clothing Bureau, but I cannot recall where, and I do not remember it discussing what dyestuffs were used (sumac, logwood, etc), if any (re: natural colored fleece).

Does anyone else recall such an article?

[cprljohnivey]

Re: RD jackets and trousers, what were the most common colours?

Check out this web site... has some great articles that might stear you in the direction you are looking for! http://www.blueandgraymarching.com/

[GarrettG1993]

Re: RD jackets and trousers, what were the most common colours?

Mr. Wickett, I think this is the article that you were refering to: http://www.blueandgraymarching.com/a...richmond-.html

Although it does not mention anything about the dyes used it does account for what material was on hand during March of 1863. However, it does mention that domestic cloth was over priced and inferior quality to English goods, and that English cloth had already been purchased. Longstreets Corp was outfitted in BG Kersey at Chickamauga, and there is a pair of English enlisted trousers (id'd to a general... Pender I think) that were worn at Gettysburg.
As for trying to typify the dye used on the domestic cloth you can't just assume that logwood or sumac dye was all that was used. I believe there is a thread on here somewhere that cites a period article about the various shades that can be made with various plant and mineral dyes. You should be able to find it by searching for "dying cloth", "dying jackets", or something else of that nature. Given that the link cites that there were 8 to 10 mills that were supplying the depot there is unlikely that they were all producing the same shade of cloth or even weave material.
From what I've seen or original garments, jeans cloth typically has a warp dyed one color and a weave of another. This produces a relatively uniformed color at a distance and even in most photographs. The Blair jacket (see Echoes of Glory) worn at Chancellorsville is of a jean that has taken a real "butternut" color, but I have no clue how long it takes to produce that shade.

-Garrett Glover

[GarrettG1993]

Re: RD jackets and trousers, what were the most common colours?

There are some excellent article links here on the AC that explain the issuance of Richmond clothing and its progression throughout the war. Look under the Uniforms & Equipment tab on the front page. I would reccomend David Burt's paper on English stuff and Les Jensen's papers on CS depots.


Cheers,
Garrett Glover

[max]

Re: RD jackets and trousers, what were the most common colours?

Thank you all for guiding me in the right direction, I will look for more information following your advices and links.

As for trying to typify the dye used on the domestic cloth you can't just assume that logwood or sumac dye was all that was used. I believe there is a thread on here somewhere that cites a period article about the various shades that can be made with various plant and mineral dyes. You should be able to find it by searching for "dying cloth", "dying jackets", or something else of that nature. Given that the link cites that there were 8 to 10 mills that were supplying the depot there is unlikely that they were all producing the same shade of cloth or even weave material.

Garret I’m afraid I have not explained me properly. I’m aware of the multiple types of dyes; not only Logwood or sumac, I only asked if some of them maybe were more prevalent than the others due to availability or easiness of production. I know that even using the same dye the cloth colour will had varied from batch to batch and once issued to the troops the variation of shades will be greater due to different exposure to light wear etc. this was something that happened even in WWII German clothing.

I will use the search function with your suggestions and read the articles you are recommending me. Tank you all again for taking your time to give me your aid in this complex subject.

[Secesh]

Re: RD jackets and trousers, what were the most common colours?

Juan,
You may also want to go on the Museum of the Confederacy website and order the Catalogue of Uniforms, which details all the CS garments in their collection, types of material for the body, linings, and sleeves, types of buttons, etc. Best regards, Tom

[David Fox]

Re: RD jackets and trousers, what were the most common colours?

At the risk of being a tad wide of the mark originally posited in this thread, the following just came to my attention in Mingus's "Flames Beyond Gettysburg" (Savas Beatie, publisher, 2011). It's new to me. One James Gall, an obviously intelligent and observant civilian, wrote of Gordon's Confederate infantry heading west through York, Pennsylvania, on their way to Gettysburg, 30 June, 1863,the exact time frame of which the original post is concerned. Wrote Mr. Gall:

" Physically, the men looked about equal to the generality of our own troops, and there were fewer boys among them. Their dress was a wretched mixture of all cuts and colors. There was not the slightest attempt at uniformity in this respect. Every man seemed to have put on whatever he could get ahold of, without regard to shape or color. I noticed a pretty large sprinkling of blue pants among them, some of those, doubtless, left by Milroy in Winchester. Their shoes, as a general thing, were poor, some of the men were entirely barefooted. Their equipments were light as compared with those of our men. They consisted of a thin woolen blanket, coiled and slung from the shoulder in the form of a sash, a haversack slung from the opposite shoulder, and a cartridge box. The whole cannot weigh more than twelve or fourteen pounds. Is it strange then, that with such light loads they should be able to make longer and more rapid marches than our men? The marching of the men was irregular and ill-kept. Their whole appearance was greatly inferior to that of our soldiers."

[max]

Re: RD jackets and trousers, what were the most common colours?

Thanks for the info Tom, another one for my little library.

David, it’s a very interesting description especially the reference of the use of the blue trousers, however the CS units could vary widely from one to the other, but I think probably it’s a good description of one of the very worn units.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: RD jackets and trousers, what were the most common colours?

Hallo!

I would also add to the mix...

That a number of bark, root, nut natural dyes tend to dye dirty tannish-gray. the enxt level up is the use of mordants to change the color. Oh, for example unmordanted logwood dyes "brown" while logwood mordanted with iron dyes gray.
The other side of that coin is that thse "vegetable" dyestuffs tend not to be light-fast, or color-fast. Where color-fastness comes into play is that yarn or yardage might have been dyed an ideal gray and was when it left the dyebath, exposure ot light and use would turn the gray into "dirty" brownish tans.
(Where that complicates our research and knowledge is that "when" that happened is hard to access. For exmaple, the discussion that "Emergency Blankets" may not have been initially tan or brownish tan but actually iorn mordanted logwood dyed gray and what we see as brown now may be the result of decades and decades of degradation fading and color shifting.

And last, white and black sheep. Weaver and dyer C.J. Wilde used to tease me saying there are only two colors of sheep- "white and black." However, white can be some shade of white or gray. And black can be some shade of black to some shade of brown to some shade of tan. Sooo, depending on the source for the "wool" it can be natural white to gray needing dyeing (The Confederates did not always dye). It can be blackish. And it can be naturally brown in its undyed state so that a garment was brown to the eye without being dyed.

(While we use our clothing only a small fraction of the time a CW used theirs, we do get an idea of how textiles and dyestuffs act and react over time and use when we use fabrics dyed the same way rather than use modern aniline dyestuffs to simulate Period vegetable dyes.)

Curt
Dabbler Dyer Mess

[max]

Re: RD jackets and trousers, what were the most common colours?

Thanks for the very interesting information Curt. One of the things you say it’s “(The Confederates did not always dye)” Maybe are you saying dyeing the uniforms was more common than making them in natural colour? Are more surviving dyed examples than natural coloured ones?