Looking for more info on "cook" insignia and other occupational insignia

[Sad Spaceman]

I am trying to find out more info on the small sleeve patches for cooks, teamster and similaer. Pictures of origanals, when this was started how often it was used. I know the Cook patch is a little chefs hat, tho I've also seen a "c" this would go in the crux on the in side of the ceverons or just on the sleeves fo privates.




Aaron Coen
1st Nebr Vet Vols

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Looking for more info on "cook" insignia and other occupational insignia

Hallo!

Being really brief here...

By and large, the specialist insignia of the CW era were the caduseus for hospital stewards, crossed axes of pioneers, and the crossed flags of signalmen.

I believe you are thinking of the post 1872/1873 changes that expanded that to add bugles, cresents, horse shoes, saddler knives, circles, and crossed quill and keys, etc.

THose pretty much lasted until the 1899 (1903?) uniform regulations, which IIRC, is when the cook's hat patch came out.

Again, being very brief...

Curt

[markj]

Re: Looking for more info on "cook" insignia and other occupational insignia

This might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SGT141/Sandbox

Mark Jaeger

[Sad Spaceman]

Re: Looking for more info on "cook" insignia and other occupational insignia

I do seem to recal seeing a "C" and "T" and on sleeve jackets. Always on colored teamsters(T) and cooks(C), but at the time thought nothing of it. It have only existed in a particular theater, or Corps But without any pictures now I have little referance. Thanks for the info tho

A P Coen

[Doughboy]

Re: Looking for more info on "cook" insignia and other occupational insignia

Not so sure about wikipedia as a credible source

[Hank Trent]

Re: Looking for more info on "cook" insignia and other occupational insignia

Not so sure about wikipedia as a credible source

Is this more credible?

Union Army Uniforms and Insignia of the American Civil War 1861-1865
Presented by Dr. Howard G. Lanham

http://howardlanham.tripod.com/newindex.html

That's just two clicks away from the Wikipedia site.

Even better, two more clicks, and you're here:

http://howardlanham.tripod.com/unireg.htm

with dozens of links to period photographs, drawings and manuals illustrating or describing insignia.

If one is planning to study a topic in depth, one always has to follow the footnotes of any secondary source and assess the author's conclusions, based on his/her interpretation of the primary sources he/she used, and in that respect, Wikipedia is no different than any other.

At this point, though, it would help to have some more evidence. For example, from the original post: "I know the Cook patch is a little chefs hat, tho I've also seen a 'c.'"

How do you "know" about the chef's hat insignia? Do you have a sample image of a person wearing a "c"? That may help people better identify what you're seeing, which might be anything from a mis-identified artifact from a later period, to a Civil War-era photograph of a uniformed person in a unique situation, etc.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Looking for more info on "cook" insignia and other occupational insignia

To add to Mr. Trent's informative post, I would note that Mr. Jaeger has posted the information for illustrative purposes and not as a definitive treatise on the topic. Mark is well-known in the community for his research and has contributed greatly to our knowledge through his many articles published in The Watchdog and Civil War Historian and other places.

[Doughboy]

Re: Looking for more info on "cook" insignia and other occupational insignia

Understood and not questioning his expertise, but a credible source is a credible source and if it is good enough for Mark it will be good enough for anyone....

[Sad Spaceman]

Re: Looking for more info on "cook" insignia and other occupational insignia

The chefs hat seems to be a post war invention. This is a Span Am war era one, earliest ones I found were probably from the 71 reforms as they are white on dark blue. As for the sleeve letters, recollection of old pictures, I'm asking questions becuase I don't know, can't remember the pictures and had this crazy idea that other people interested in the 19th century military may actual remeber seeing the same thing.

AP Coen
1st Nebr Vet Vols

[Cyclesmith]

Re: Looking for more info on "cook" insignia and other occupational insignia

While I can't directly answer your question about patches, other than to say you are correct about the Span-Amer war "Hat" patch... I personally have never seen any direct evidence of a patch being used in the CW. I can, however, enlighten a research path I took on the topic of camp cooks and cooking a few years ago... unfortunately we were not looking into insignia, the direct topic was black involvement in the Union Army.

A resource that I found very helpful in beginning my research was "William C. Davis, A Taste for War: The Culinary History of the Blue and the Gray, 2003". Obviously cooking was handled by both white and black "cooks". Men were cooks for all sorts of reasons (usually not cooking skills)... could be punishment for breaking the rules, strong enough to lift the barrels, weren't good at soldiering, volunteered for the job...etc...etc. Many cooks in both armys were black, either slaves (south) or contraband (north) or freed. I have no evidence to either confirm or deny the use of cooks patches during the war but I personally would very surprised if the Army took the time and effort as the war dragged on to worry about insignia for cooks.

An exception to this may have been regular army. If their were insignia I would expect to find it there, not so much on volunteer units... though Regs represent a minority. You may also focus your research on the heavy artillery units in Washington, as they were large units who had all the time in the world to worry about insignias and such... plus were very close to supply.

[Sad Spaceman]

Re: Looking for more info on "cook" insignia and other occupational insignia

Thank you sir, I will have to look into the book. I'm only dabbling into period cooking, but I cook professionally and look at what available for ingredients and see potential for eatable food and an impression that I could jump into with little trouble but understanding more the cultural/social aspect of cooks, bakers and chefs not their modern equivalents.