What are the dimensions of a 12 pound grapeshot ball?

[Cumpston1862]

Gents-

Bear with me. I am in infantry guy and I have searched the AC files but I can't find a difinitive answer.


I know grapeshot rounds/stands saw very limited use during the Civil War in land battles. The question is what are the dimensions of a standard 12 pounder Napolean grapeshot ball. Not the whole stand just one ball from the stand of 9 balls. The diameter, circumference and weight would be helpful.

I'm asking because when I look around for a grapeshot on-line their seems to be so many sizes of small solid shot out there with CW relic dealers they seem to contradict eachother. I know 1" or less is probably canister or caseshot. I have a 6 pounder grapeshot that is 1-1/8" in diameter. On-line there are all these 1-1/4" , 1-1/2", 1-3/4", 2" and 2-1/2" solids coming from? Are some of these Naval shots?

What should a Napolean 12 pounder grape actually be??

[GrumpyDave]

Re: What are the dimensions of a 12 pound grapeshot ball?

this should get you started but I got 190,000+ hits and found the answer on the first click.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_artillery_in_the_American_Civil_War

your mileage may vary.

[Pumpkinslinger]

Re: What are the dimensions of a 12 pound grapeshot ball?

I don't see anything in there that would answer his question. I believe he asked for the size of the individual balls.

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: What are the dimensions of a 12 pound grapeshot ball?

Here is what I go by.

Canister
12 field howitzer - 1.05-1.08Inch
12 Gun - 1.46 - 1.49inch

Grape
12Pdr - 2.02 - 2.06inch

Civilwarartillery.com shot tables

Also, as far as where are some of these coming from, unless you are looking at reputable dealers sites, many times these are steel mill balls or rock crushers, etc.

John Walsh

[Cumpston1862]

Re: What are the dimensions of a 12 pound grapeshot ball?

Gents-

Thank-you all for the input and the information. Much appreciated.

[GrumpyDave]

Re: What are the dimensions of a 12 pound grapeshot ball?

Never wrote the link I posted was my first click. I wrote "that should get him started."

Teach a man to fish....

[Pennvolunteer]

Re: What are the dimensions of a 12 pound grapeshot ball?

For Artillery questions, always go to Gibbons "Artillerists Manual" or Hunt, Barry, French "Instructions for Field Artillery". John Walsh got it partially right. From Gibbon's manual;
Projectiles, page 160 - "A stand of grape consists of nine shot of a size appropriate to the caliber used which are held together by two rings and a plate at each end of the stand connected by a rod or bolt. For dimensions see Appendix page 27"
dimensions: 12 pdr, large 2.06/ small 2.02 (actually on page 28 of the appendix)

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: What are the dimensions of a 12 pound grapeshot ball?

My source is the United States Ordnance Manual 1861 (printed in 1862), which have shot tables for all sizes of guns. This can be found online at Civilwarartillery.com

John Walsh

[Cumpston1862]

Re: What are the dimensions of a 12 pound grapeshot ball?

John-

Thanks for the help with website CivilWarArtillery.com . I had encountered that website in my search but did not go through it completely and missed the "shot tables" under technical information. Thanks!

I have looked over the tables pretty closely and unless I am missing something I did not anything for a 6 pounder grapeshot. Is there another table somewhere else? I couldn't find one.

I purchased a solid shot from a well respected relic dealer in Central Tennessee here in the spring and he explained it was a ball from a stand of 6 pound grape. The ball is about 1-1/16" in diameter and weighs about 3 oz. It looks to have been fired so it is a little oval shaped. Are these dimensions/sizes correct?

[GrumpyDave]

Re: What are the dimensions of a 12 pound grapeshot ball?

What's the sectional density?

[Pennvolunteer]

Re: What are the dimensions of a 12 pound grapeshot ball?

Neither the ordnance manual nor the Artillerist's manual list any 6 pdr grapeshot.

If you haven't looked at Gibbons, it is definitive for artillerymen and you can read it at: http://www.civilwarartillery.com/books/GIBBON.PDF

Hunt, Barry, French "Instructions for Field Artillery" doesn't even address grape in its ammunition tables, only shell, shot, case and cannister.

[Cumpston1862]

Re: What are the dimensions of a 12 pound grapeshot ball?

Oh boy. I'm doing math... :)

Not sure if this is correct or not but if weighs 3 ounces that and it is 1.0625 in diameter that would look like this...I think.

.3 divided by 1.0625 squared= .289083

Would that be right? What does this tell us other than my math skills are weak? :)

[GrumpyDave]

Re: What are the dimensions of a 12 pound grapeshot ball?

It's iron for sure.

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: What are the dimensions of a 12 pound grapeshot ball?

Neither the ordnance manual nor the Artillerist's manual list any 6 pdr grapeshot.

If you haven't looked at Gibbons, it is definitive for artillerymen and you can read it at: http://www.civilwarartillery.com/books/GIBBON.PDF

Hunt, Barry, French "Instructions for Field Artillery" doesn't even address grape in its ammunition tables, only shell, shot, case and cannister.

That's because I don't believe there were any 6pdr Grape Stands during Civil War. Smallest Grape wsa for 12pdr.

John Walsh

[Cumpston1862]

Re: What are the dimensions of a 12 pound grapeshot ball?

Gents-

Please find attached the picture showing the mystery ball. I have placed next to it some other projectiles and a penny for scale.

When I bought the mystery ball from this relic dealer he had it in a box. In this box was 20-30 round solid shots in about 4-5 different sizes. I grabbed this one thinking it was a canister round and he said it was from a 6 pound stand of grapeshot. He also said it was probably pre-war and rather rare because they were using up what was found in the arsenals when the war broke out so they weren't made during the war. It was found near the battlefield of Stones River.

If this ball is not a grapeshot from a 6 pound stand then what is it??