Issue Shirt too Large

[BradAguila]

Hi All,
I've got a question regarding my federal contract variant shirt. It's an NJS, and I bought it used from a friend out here. It's maybe a size large, so it doesn't quite hang off of me, but it is a little loose. I didn't think much of it, until at an event a couple of weeks ago I was told by another pard that it was incorrect to have a shirt that was too large - and that I should wash it a couple of times for it to shrink. Is a shirt that is loose inauthentic?

Thanks,
Brad Aguila

[Michael Comer]

Re: Issue Shirt too Large

These clothes were not tailor made and some were too small and some were too big. Ask your friend for some documentation of that. If he doesn't have any or just heard it from another reenactor, I wouldn't sweat it and just enjoy your shirt.

[Canton Zouave]

Re: Issue Shirt too Large

How do they know.would be my question. Contracting of garments wasnt exactly a science and Lord knows not all manufactures did it the same way, or same quality. The Brooks Brothers Scandal brings that about quite clearly. In modern terms an issue shirt is basically a LARGE or 42 inch chest give or take. Steve Osmond's article is a good source for information of the 1851 Pattern shirt. Trust me, depending on the material quality it will shrink, maybe even while it hangs in the closet like mine. I wouldnt sweat the fact that you shirt may be a 44 instead of a 42. We are actually talking only a few inches. Their are a mess of images of troops wearing the gambit of issue articles of clothing and they run many ways: Just Right, Too Large and Too Small. In the past I have worn coats to small for me cause it was "WHAT I WAS ISSUED" so maybe now I should make an article several sizes larger to make myself look smaller. ;p

[MarkTK36thIL]

Re: Issue Shirt too Large

Taken from "History of the Thirty-Sixth Regiment Illinois Volunteers During the War of the Rebellion."

Sept. 1861
"The new uniforms fitted admirably, excepting say fifty or sixty to a company. Here would be seen a tall, lank, ungainly man, as slim as a whipstalk, the unhappy possessor of a pair of unmentionables as loose and baggy as a gunny-sack-large enough for Daniel Lambert, and what was still more remarkable, the excess expended in breadth of beam was lacking in length, and when once enveloping its ungainly possessor, several inches, more or less, of naked legs would be discovered protruding from below the voluminous folds of cloth. Some of the shorter ones were able to button their waistbands around their necks, and then have from six inches to a foot of cloth to spare at the bottoms ; but this defect was easily remedied by rolling them up or chopping them off with a broadaxe. The pockets of some were too shallow to hold a jack-knife, while others were so deep as to suggest the idea of taking off the pants entirely to enable one to reach the bottom, and large enough to hold a blanket, a shirt, or even a side of bacon, if necessary. Some were so tight as to
suggest cholera morbus or heaves.

The coats fitted beautifully, almost as well, in fact, as the pants. A th.ird of them were too large around the waist; as many were too small around the chest; but then these slight
drawbacks admirably offset each other. The collars of some were but a trifle above the small of the wearer's back, while the collars of others were several inches above the heads of their owners. The sleeves, too, had here and there a fault. Some were so tight under the arms as to nearly lift the possessor the ground; others large enough for a small sized boy to crawl through; as for length, some did not stop un til the distance of several inches beyond the tips of the fingers had been attained, while the career of others terminated at or near the elbows. With these trifling exceptions the uniforms fitted admirably, and the men were universally pleased as well as proud at the change from jeans and satinets to the garb of soldiers of the United States of America."

[CompanyWag]

Re: Issue Shirt too Large

Behold, a perfect army fit:

[GrumpyDave]

Re: Issue Shirt too Large

Me thinks you need to find a friend who knows a bit more about CW clothing. You got whatcha' got and dealt with it.

[BradAguila]

Re: Issue Shirt too Large

Gentlemen,
I appreciate your responses. I suppose the answer should have been a bit more obvious to me, and I'll do a bit more research next time.

Thanks,
Brad Aguila

[Pennvolunteer]

Re: Issue Shirt too Large

What they all said! Just like the account above from the 39th IL, in the diary of Surgeon Black of the 49th IL, he describes the issue of new uniforms where they just rolled bales of trowsers and jackets off the back of a wagon and soldiers just grabbed some clothes. I can imagine there were some ill fitting clothes from that instance.

[Jake Nott]

Re: Issue Shirt too Large

Brad, The book "Soldiers Blue and Gray" by James I Robertson JR has several references to ill fitting Uniforms it is well worth the read. Nelson Stauffer of the 63rd IL estimated his uniform at “twelve sizes too long and nine sizes too big around”. There are several books written on first person accounts of the war with references to clothing. At this moment I cannot remember which book I read it in “The Army only has two sizes, too big and too small”
Something else to consider, this is just my 2 cents, depending on what year of the war, how things would fit. Early war articles you brought from home would fit better than articles sent say in ’63 which would have been made from the pattern of when you left. Not taking into consideration weight loss from marching and starving.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Issue Shirt too Large

Hi All,
I didn't think much of it, until at an event a couple of weeks ago I was told by another pard that it was incorrect to have a shirt that was too large - and that I should wash it a couple of times for it to shrink. Is a shirt that is loose inauthentic?

Thanks,
Brad Aguila

Is your pard larger than you? Sounds like he is trying to talk you out of your shirt.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Issue Shirt too Large

Hallo!

What is authentic to the Period is, issuances were made without regards to a soldier's actual size as far as the proportions of standard sizes in the bundle or bale went.

So, three things went on:

1. Wear what you got.
2. Trade up or down for a better size from a lad with up or down size problems with what he received
3. Tailor or fit it yourself if you have the skills, or pay a compny tailor or man with skills to modify it for you.

Curt

[Mutt]

Re: Issue Shirt too Large

John Billings, Hardtack and Coffee Page 204 - Chapter X - Raw Recruits

An excerpt (there is more of interest written beyond and before it, including an illustration showing just what has already been pointed out about ill-fiting clothing):

". . .They wore the government clothing as was furnished them, from the unshapely, uncomely forage cap to the shoddy, inelastic sock. It mattered naught to them that the limited stock of the quartermaster furnished nothing that fitted them. . ."

It's on Google Books now :)



Best,

[MuleyGil]

Re: Issue Shirt too Large

Behold, a perfect army fit:

Having worn a number of uniform coats with standing collars-both of the War Between the States and modern Marine Corps, I'd rather have one too loose than too tight.

[Paul L Muller]

Re: Issue Shirt too Large

I would rather see cloths the are ill fitting than what look like tailor made fit, because the men would loose weight in the service as well as the lottery of issued clothes. I would not rely on your pards knolege of ....anything very much plm

[sbeneke1]

Re: Issue Shirt too Large

I have a problem in the fit of my issue shirt. The neck is to small for me. It is a non-contract variant, it has one button on the collar alone. I added tiny piece of wool to move the button over an extra half inch but it seems very open with this alteration. Does anyone have a knowlege of issue shirts having buttons added to close the neck better or a similar alteration to what I did? I have yet to find any reference to issue shirts being alterated.