Sewing A Collar "On The Square"

[TLPershing]

Hi,
I am new to the forum, and would like some advice from those sewing experts out there.

I am currently sewing a shirt "on the square" based on an 1852 Godey's shirt pattern, which I am modifying for a better fit and to suit my tastes. This pattern has no instructions, however, so I am searching around the internet to find out how it is done. Fortunately, there is a very helpful gentleman on Youtube who has posted several videos showing how to sew a shirt, but the pattern I am using seems different in the shoulder and collar area than his.

My question is, how do I make the "slit" in the body for the neck, and how do I attach the neck gussets? "The Workingwoman's Guide," which has instructions, says this about the subject on page 138:

"When thus folded (with the front of the body one nail shorter than the back), crease it by a thread, and, after leaving the proper distance for the shoulders, proceed to cut the slit for the neck and down for the bosom."

Firstly, does anyone know what is meant by "crease by a thread"? Secondly, this seems to say that the neck-hole is an actual slit, similar to the shirt here, though it is a much earlier pattern: http://teainateacup.wordpress.com/20...aking-a-shirt/ However, the neck openings of the shirts in "EoG: Arms and Equipment of the Confederacy" seem to be actual holes, not merely slits.

I suspect that if the opening is a slit then neck gussets are required, while if it is a hole, nothing more is necessary. Is this the case?

I have one more question, though it is not as pressing. On page 141, "The Workingwoman's Guide" says this about sewing gussets, which I assume would be applicable to the neck gussets:

"These gussets are fixed by sewing them on at the wrong side of the shirt to within a quarter of an inch less than the square, and felling the other side nearly over."

Can someone decipher this statement for me? "A quarter of an inch less than the square"?

Help is much appreciated!

Thomas Langley

[Mutt]

Re: Sewing A Collar "On The Square"

Hi there,

Let's see if I can be of some help. it looks like you might need to read up a bit on the basics of shirt constuction for the mid-19th century. While The link you provided below is helpful a bit for construction reference, it bein gmuch ealier (as you noted) seems to be confusing you a tad. I'll direct you to Elizabeth Clark's "The Sewing Academy" and discussion Board which is awesome and would probably answer all your questions. Also "Thoughts on Men's Shirts" book.

"When thus folded (with the front of the body one nail shorter than the back), crease it by a thread, and, after leaving the proper distance for the shoulders, proceed to cut the slit for the neck and down for the bosom."

Firstly, does anyone know what is meant by "crease by a thread"?

I believe this means to use a thread as a guide for where to cut the slit. When a shirt is cut "on the square" the warp and weft threads should be running straight up and down, and left and right respectively. So, for the slit, threads going up and down would provide a nice guide for a perfectly straight slit for the opening. "Creasing it by the thread" would ask that you fold the shirt vertically in half, left to right (or right to left, whatever), finding the middle via a thread. It's very similar to marking parts of a garment by "pulling threads", you literally pull threads to get straight lines to cut by. And you probably could actually pull a thread in your case, just making sure to cut it off where you want the slit to stop.

Secondly, this seems to say that the neck-hole is an actual slit, similar to the shirt here, though it is a much earlier pattern: http://teainateacup.wordpress.com/20...aking-a-shirt/ However, the neck openings of the shirts in "EoG: Arms and Equipment of the Confederacy" seem to be actual holes, not merely slits.

I suspect that if the opening is a slit then neck gussets are required, while if it is a hole, nothing more is necessary. Is this the case?

Not sure what you mean by "actual holes". Do you mean button holes? I can't say I've seen or heard of a pattern for a shirt with just a hole for your head to pop out of. Aside from issue Federal shirts with just a slit, you'll need a placket and button holes.

As far as gussets at the neck, depending on the time period and style, gussets are either needed or they aren't. To my knowledge (and without my resources on hand) I believe by the 19th century, they are not being used at the neck line. Gussets help create a nice rounded neckline, when the opening for the head is cut as straight line; again, using the thread as a guide. So the hole (slit) for the head and neck slit look like a "T" together. You have no "roundness" to the slit for the head, so adding gussets helps open it up and round it off. Another way to a rounded neckline, cut a round hole instead, thus eliminating the need for gussets. I have no clue when this change of thought came, but it stuck and we don't have gussets at our necklines today.

I have one more question, though it is not as pressing. On page 141, "The Workingwoman's Guide" says this about sewing gussets, which I assume would be applicable to the neck gussets:

"These gussets are fixed by sewing them on at the wrong side of the shirt to within a quarter of an inch less than the square, and felling the other side nearly over."

Can someone decipher this statement for me? "A quarter of an inch less than the square"?

Well, this is tough as I don't know what step of shirt construction this point in the Guide is referencing. Are we at the "constructt the sleeves" part or where? It seems to be talking about using square gussets, the only place I can see them would be on the sleeves where they join the body, others are triangular (at the neckline and side slits) and, agian, not really used by this time in history, so I'm elliminating them. Long story short: I think it just wants you to stop 1/4" from the edge.

Hope this helped some. Definitely read up on the basics, but a big "Way-to-go!" on making your own shirt from period instructions! It'll be a great feeling once your done to wear your hard work :)

Best,

[Elaine Kessinger]

Re: Sewing A Collar "On The Square"

Neckline gussets- When a neckline is cut in a "slit" it will need gussets to round it into a circle. When a neckline is cut circular, it does not need them. The change in construction happens as part of the transition from "Square" shirts to "French" shirts.

Gusset instructions- they are trying to remind you to stop your first seam leaving enough seam allowance to negotiate the point of the gusset. Instructions for a modern mind-set might say: On one point of the gusset, measure up seam allowance and make a mark. Sew down one side to mark. Fell. Sew down other side to mark. Fell, making a nice turn-over at the point.
(I'm sorry, but this is easier to show than explain without visuals)

Good luck.

[TLPershing]

Re: Sewing A Collar "On The Square"

Not sure what you mean by "actual holes". Do you mean button holes? I can't say I've seen or heard of a pattern for a shirt with just a hole for your head to pop out of. Aside from issue Federal shirts with just a slit, you'll need a placket and button holes.

Sorry for not being clear as to what I meant by "holes." I meant that the neck openings, which seemed to be almost circular, not merely slits.

As far as gussets at the neck, depending on the time period and style, gussets are either needed or they aren't. To my knowledge (and without my resources on hand) I believe by the 19th century, they are not being used at the neck line. Gussets help create a nice rounded neckline, when the opening for the head is cut as straight line; again, using the thread as a guide. So the hole (slit) for the head and neck slit look like a "T" together. You have no "roundness" to the slit for the head, so adding gussets helps open it up and round it off. Another way to a rounded neckline, cut a round hole instead, thus eliminating the need for gussets. I have no clue when this change of thought came, but it stuck and we don't have gussets at our necklines today.

Neckline gussets- When a neckline is cut in a "slit" it will need gussets to round it into a circle. When a neckline is cut circular, it does not need them. The change in construction happens as part of the transition from "Square" shirts to "French" shirts.

I suspected as much. So if the opening is circular, there is no need for gussets, whereas if it is T-shaped, they will be necessary. I suppose that some "on the square" shirts had circular openings instead of the slit-and-gusset technique. I guess that would be up to the discretion of the sewer - which was easier to do and which seemed more fashionable. (Probably the holes.)

Gusset instructions- they are trying to remind you to stop your first seam leaving enough seam allowance to negotiate the point of the gusset. Instructions for a modern mind-set might say: On one point of the gusset, measure up seam allowance and make a mark. Sew down one side to mark. Fell. Sew down other side to mark. Fell, making a nice turn-over at the point.
(I'm sorry, but this is easier to show than explain without visuals)

What do you mean by "a turn-over at the point."
So when making these gussets, like the side gusset, one would sew up to a certain point (like 8 inches, for the body) from the edge, leaving the remaining raw edges to be hemmed. Then, turning the fabric so the two edges are perpendicular to each other, sew in the gusset - folded into a triangle - right at the end of the seam so it joins the two flaps at about a 45-degree angle. After that, of course, it only remains to fell the seams.
Is that right? (I hope that's somewhat clear. . .)

I've finished the sleeves, and I'm pretty excited already! :D

Thanks for the tip on the sewing academy! Unfortunately, though, I do not have access to "Thoughts on Men's Shirts."

[TLPershing]

Re: Sewing A Collar "On The Square"

Thanks for the tip on the sewing academy! I had looked at their page, but I didn't realize that the forum was such a hotbed of information. Unfortunately, I don't have access to "Thoughts on Men's Shirts."

I see now what is meant by "creasing by a thread." It makes sense if you don't have access to shears.

By "holes," I meant the neck openings. Sorry for being unclear, but both of you answered my question anyway. I noticed that many of the shirts had circular openings instead of the slit and gusset technique. That was due to fashion, I guess; as you pointed out, it superseded the earlier way.

Gusset instructions- they are trying to remind you to stop your first seam leaving enough seam allowance to negotiate the point of the gusset. Instructions for a modern mind-set might say: On one point of the gusset, measure up seam allowance and make a mark. Sew down one side to mark. Fell. Sew down other side to mark. Fell, making a nice turn-over at the point.
(I'm sorry, but this is easier to show than explain without visuals)

Ah, I think I see now. It's just reminding one to leave enough space to be able to fell both sides of the triangle. Thank you!
In attaching the gusset, though, it is just sewn on where the seam ends, so that it crosses the 90 degree angle made by the two edges of the seam at a 45 degree angle, right?

Thanks to both of you, and sorry for not doing so earlier - my last post seemed to have been lost.

[Mutt]

Re: Sewing A Collar "On The Square"

Hi again Thomas,

Glad we could help out! Elaine knows her stuff to be sure!

Going back to gussets, I'm assuming you mean the sleeve ones? So drew up a little picture of how it should go. The illustration at the bottom right has to be thought of in 3D a bit, looking down the sleeve from the opening that will meet the body(big circle) to the wrist end (smaller circle). I'd recomend attaching the wrist band before attaching the gusset and creating the sleeve, though you can still do it after if you want, just a bit more tricky in my book.



Hope this helps!

Best,

[TLPershing]

Re: Sewing A Collar "On The Square"

Thanks for the illustration! That makes it pretty clear. I was actually talking about the side gussets, however, that are placed at the end of each side seam. I understand that the side-gusset is just folded into a triangle and placed across the side seam, after it has been turned to form a 90 degree angle.

[Mutt]

Re: Sewing A Collar "On The Square"

You can get away with not putting those gussets on and adding some tacks across where the seam ends or a buttonhole stitch. I think you've got the idea if using one though.

[TLPershing]

Re: Sewing A Collar "On The Square"

In case there is anyone else intending to make a shirt who is reading this thread, I have a word of warning.
When the pattern calls for the fabric to be gathered at the collar, gather it uniformly, do not make two pleats at the back like on modern shirts. I did that at first, and it pulled the shirt back over my shoulders, making it very uncomfortable, so I had to rip out the collar and redo it.

[Elaine Kessinger]

Re: Sewing A Collar "On The Square"

The exception to Mr. Langley's Rule is when one is reproducing the Federal Issue Domet Flannel Shirt. Excess in the neckline of original shirts were shown to be taken up with two pleats at the center back.

If the neckline strains when you move the shoulders, curve out the back. If the placket puckers, curve out the front.