Mud...

[Eutaw Regiment]

Re: Mud...

While staged in the cornfield at Chicka-mud-a on Sunday, myself and a few messmates took the opportunity to clean the excess mud off our boots with corncobs. It got the worst of it off very efficiently, and after some passes with a stiff brush and a good saddle-soaping, they're ready to be oiled up!

Was that before or after you chucked them at the rest of the battalion...? ;)

[bill carson]

Re: Mud...

I'm there with Grumpy Dave - our 21st century mindset is showing - just WEAR them dry! Old Boy scout trick - in fact, most of the sutlers say to purposely soak your new brogans and wear them dry to get a perfect custom fit! Leaving those shoes sit wet with mud on them for hours in a car and then force clean them is very bad for them - just wear them dry - I always wear them on the drive home and when I get there they are fine. The irony is that those sutler brogans are probably the highest quality shoes you will own - and can stand up to things our 21st century plastic and rubber monstrosities can't. Just do what the soldiers then would have done - keep wearing them! Go through a damp grassy field to get the excess off, and then just wear them around - best thing you can do - and you will find that they will fit better too!
Erik V. Gorr

[bill carson]

Re: Mud...

I wanted to add ; a lot of great comments here - I like what Curt Schmidt and robwall1861 said - the soldiers were on campaign - fighting and marching - the lesser part of the time (if one takes the big picture) and in camps the greater part of the time, so it is not an "either/or" issue - one should have BOTH impressions ideally, and degrees in between; thread bare campaign look, and fresh issue stuff with degrees in the middle. No need to urinate on buttons and buckles - they would have lost and replaced them before it got that much patina.
Back to the brogans - I have 2 pair from 1985 and '86 respectively, and 3 pair from 2004/5 and they are all fine and same as ever. I have never oiled them or treated them but have kept them dry and always made sure to wear them dry before putting them away.

[robwall1861]

Re: Mud...

I wanted to add ; a lot of great comments here - I like what Curt Schmidt and robwall1861 said - the soldiers were on campaign - fighting and marching - the lesser part of the time (if one takes the big picture) and in camps the greater part of the time, so it is not an "either/or" issue - one should have BOTH impressions ideally, and degrees in between; thread bare campaign look, and fresh issue stuff with degrees in the middle. No need to urinate on buttons and buckles - they would have lost and replaced them before it got that much patina.
Back to the brogans - I have 2 pair from 1985 and '86 respectively, and 3 pair from 2004/5 and they are all fine and same as ever. I have never oiled them or treated them but have kept them dry and always made sure to wear them dry before putting them away.

Erik,

Wearing them around the yard/work is how I broke in both my brogans.....if they get wet at events, I wear them till they're dry.

Time frame on my shoes:

Union Issue (Jarnagin made in '98)=Good/Very Servicable shape (and that's with being oiled a few times along with shoe polish for a few parades here and there)
CS Issue (Robert Land made in '10)=Great/Very Servicable shape (oiled a few times along with shoe polish for a few early war/nice looking impression)

The only issue I had with my US brogans is the toe area started to come apart (right after Bentonville '10 and understandable due to age of shoes and rocky terrain at times) but I took it to a cobbler here in Raleigh and he fixed them up for me and they look great. I only use them for my US impression (as they're older) and that's usually at events at Bennett Place in Durham, NC. I started just Union in '98 and continued to Union AND Confederate in '04 (sorry to ramble on....)

Again, my .02 worth :).

Robin
PS: I'm an Eagle Scout too!

[Daniel]

Re: Mud...

What type of oil do you recommend for belts and slings. Thank you.

Dan Stewart

[bill carson]

Re: Mud...

you got it ! I'd still like to try that bear grease previously mentioned! lol! Hey - my first unit was the 1st/11th North Carolina! They are based on the coast - Ft. Branch and Ft. Macon.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Mud...

Hallo!

"What type of oil do you recommend for belts and slings. Thank you. "

Lads will have their preferences and personal druthers.

And that can be historical as well as philosophical. :) :) And divided between what CW soldiers had garrison or more particularly field access to to use, versus what we moderns have conveniently available many/much of which is petroleum and/or silicon based.

Many like Neatsfoot Oil. Which brings up a controversial side discussion with the differences between pure Neatsfoot Oil and the modern Neatsfoot Oil Compound which has additives. Some maintain that the compound will rot the linen stitching in shoes and gear. But at the same time, some western folks say they have used NSO for 30 years with n harmful damage. In my experience, I have had linen thread damage/rot and do not like it.

Many hold that a grease (an oil suspended in wax) is the "bestest" and "safest" to use. But NFO works well in moderation so long as the leather is not over oiled or saturated to the point the skin cells swell and burst leading to premature leather destruction and "death."

Some few lads take a more "field" approach and look to what a CW soldier sometimes had access to to use and come away with bacon grease. But one has to be careful what kind of bacon one uses as much of the modern bacon has high salt and chemical additives which are not good for leather either.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[Daniel]

Re: Mud...

Curt, thank you for your help. I use Hubbard's on my shoes but was reluctant to use it on the belts and slings. But the NOF sounds better.

Dan Stewart

[robwall1861]

Re: Mud...

I also had a question that came to mind (got back from my p/t job late so I couldn't post it then)...I have baseball glove/leather conditioner from way back when (liquid form) and I wanted to use it up before I used up my Neatsfoot Oil (since I don't have a need for it for my glove anymore). I used it on my accoutrements this one time (when I was oiling them after Chickamauga) and was going to use the rest on my brogans after I finish cleaning them with saddle soap first, does anyone know if this will be better or worse then Neatsfoot Oil for this one time use?

(Sorry if I confused anyone with my rambling...coffee kicking in:)).

Thanks,
Robin

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Mud...

Hallo!

Dunno.

I have never tried any. I believe most of the baseball glove care oil products are some variation and company recipe/formula with sundry oils often based on some lanolin, some "vitamin E" and sometimes silicon. Or those in a paraffin or carnuba wax base to make creams.

In theory, any leather conditioner or "softener" will work as long as the leather gets moderately moisturized within an optimum range so it is neither too dry OR to wet. As with many things we do, it can come down to the three camps- doing things Period, doing things Modern, and "Mixing and Matching."

I would suspect, but don't know, that some of these modern sports glove products may impart and leave "unusual" or "flowery' foo-foo smells... ;) :) :)

Others' mileage will vary.

Curt

[bill carson]

Re: Mud...

Curt - thank you for the great info - the NFO info was very enlightening to me since an old and long-lasting pair of Jarnigan Federal brogans came apart at the stitching shortly after my using NFO on them - they came COMPLETELY apart, but ONLY at the stitching - the threads simply dissolved - so this incident bears your comments out well.
I used pure NFO - and I found that stuff will very easily lubricate a whole room and everything in it before you know it! :)
(it gets everywhere very easily)
I like the "grease" idea better - oil and wax suspension - what would you recommend?
Interestingly, on reading centennial reenactor/NSSA participants' musings - they used the same thing to lube their muskets.
I will add here a grisly and very disturbing account I read a year or two ago of an infantryman in the civil war witnessing another soldier using the "tallow" from a nearby corpse to oil his shoes very coolly and callously. ( does anyone happen to know/remember what I am referring to?)

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Mud...

Hallo!

There are dozens and dozens of recipes and formulae out there, as well as lads who swear by one or the next.

For many years, I had used my "N-SSA" bullet lube which was Crisco vegetable "shortening" and beeswax (kinda sorta reminiscent of CW lube of beef or sheep tallow and beeswax). Since I always medium sized can of it on hand, it was a hop and a skip to using it to maintain leather.

When I ventured off into the 18th century frontier, I wanted something less "modern" and went with tallow and bear oil. I would have preferred mountain lion oil and tallow mix, but "painters" are hard to come by these daze.

Some lads like olive oil and beeswax. My father liked a beeswax, turpentine, and neats foot oil recipe. Some oils stink like castor oil. Some turn rancid quickly. Some tallows contain salts which can attack leather cells/fibers. Animal fats can serve as a meal to encourage bacteria or fungus. Some lads add emulsifiers or drying agents, which can dry too fast and damage leather in the long run.

Some "dressings" attract insects, others mice.

And so on and so on....

Curt

[P. M. Cunningham, Tinner]

Re: Mud...

Has anyone actually ever done a study on various oils and interaction with linen cord? I see more rot of thread from lack of conditioning.

Pat Cunningham

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Mud...

Hallo!

I have never seen a study, and do doubt one exists.
I have seen linen thread rot and destruction attributed to the mineral oil and chemical salts in the Neats Foot Oil Compound.

But, IMHO, it is all empirical type volunteer information from their shared experiences of lads claiming, reporting, that linen threads "burst" shortly after the first, second, or third, etc., applications of NFOC.

To that, I can only add in my personal experience, threads burst where there was no strain on a seam three events later.

Which is often countered by western saddler folks empirically sharing that they have been using NFOC for decades with no ill effect. (But I wonder, ponder, whether cotton or nylon thread behaves differently than linen...)

Curt