Confederate States of America 1863 cast iron pot authentication needed.

[Djm1]

I stumbled upon this cast iron pot at an estate sale in Memphis this weekend. After I cleaned it and saw the marks on the bottom, I began to get excited.
I haven't been able to find any similar items in my internet search, and I consider that good news. If it was a reproduction I would expect to find numerous examples , possibly several for sale.

The casting is crude, and little effort was made to grind off the rough spots. The original bail has been replaced with heavy copper wire.


Is this original? Is this what was called a "spider" ( Dutch oven)?
Does anyone have an idea where it was made?

[Tyler Underwood]

Re: Confederate States of America 1883 cast iron pot authentication needed.

Dennis, I don’t know a lot about your iron pot, but based on your images, it does appear to be original. I would check out the links below and maybe even contact the museum and see if they can provide you with some more information. If you are able to turn up more info can you please share it on the forum? I would like to know more about it.

http://www.exploresouthernhistory.com/tannehill.html

http://www.tannehill.org/museum.html

“By 1863, the Tannehill Ironworks could
produce 22 tons of desperately needed iron
per day. Used for the casting of artillery,
cookware and even cast iron stoves for the
Confederate army, the iron produced at
Tannehill contributed significantly to the
Southern war effort. Around 500 workers lived
in cabins on the site and the facility also
included a gristmill, tannery and tax-in-kind
warehouse.”

[Djm1]

Re: Confederate States of America 1883 cast iron pot authentication needed.

Thanks for the lead, Tanner. I have emailed the museum director some photos.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Confederate States of America 1883 cast iron pot authentication needed.

Did you see this thread? http://www.griswoldandwagner.com/cgi...num=1102939817

Check out the photo: http://www.wagnerandgriswold.org/Attachments/12.gif

It appears to be cast from the same mold, but the imperfections are different. For example, look above the O of Confederate and the last A of America. In yours, there are obvious imperfections, but none in his. His has an imperfection above the R in Confederate but none in yours. So that's another example out there.

On that thread, they seem concerned about the ears: "And those ears were patented by Griswold in 1891 so that says it's a 20th century piece." I don't know enough about the ears to comment, but I also wondered about the lack of gate mark. The "1863" is where the gate mark usually is, so that means the mold was filled some other way, more typical of 20th century production techniques. Anyone know of 1860s molds being done that way?

A spider traditionally had legs to be used on the hearth, to hold it above coals. This looks more like it was made to be used on a stove, due to the flat round bottom that would sit on a stovetop--more common in later pieces as stoves became more popular, though of course also made in the period as well, so that really isn't evidence of anything.. A Dutch oven would have a lid, traditionally with a lip to hold coals on top, though both names were used for other things too.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Confederate States of America 1863 cast iron pot authentication needed.

I thought the same thing relative to the "Dutch Oven" question. The shape is unusual for cast iron cookware. It is more like a big bowl, which doesn't mean much one way or the other as far as how it was used. Post what you learn from the museum about its possible Civil War provenance.

[Djm1]

Re: Confederate States of America 1883 cast iron pot authentication needed.

Thanks Hank! I will follow up with that forum also.

[Djm1]

Re: Confederate States of America 1863 cast iron pot authentication needed.

After reviewing the posts about the example found in 2004, I have the following observations:
The gate marks are the imperfections Hank noted above. On mine they are evenly spaced around the flatted area on the bottom. The other example has them less evenly spaced, but there are still 4.
This may have been called a Scotch Bowl.
The ears, patented in 1891 by Griswold, may have been a copy of a Confederate innovation. I doubt that anyone after the war would have worried much about the rights of a Rebel manufacturer who was probably defunct anyway.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Confederate States of America 1863 cast iron pot authentication needed.

After reviewing the posts about the example found in 2004, I have the following observations:
The gate marks are the imperfections Hank noted above. On mine they are evenly spaced around the flatted area on the bottom. The other example has them less evenly spaced, but there are still 4.

As far as I know, a gate mark(s) wouldn't move in relationship to the cast lettering. It's where the mold was filled, and was typically a raised line partway across the bottom on period cast iron cookware, though later was located on the edge or sides and ground off. But wherever it existed, it would be built into the mold as an opening, and therefore would be aligned the same on each piece.

This page has a photo of a typical 19th century gate mark (scroll down almost half way) and explains the change: http://www.ramshornstudio.com/iron_218d.htm

"Pieces made around 1875 to the present time were engineered so the iron entered the mold from the sides. It entered usually in two places, sometimes opposite one another. These pieces have a smooth bottom. Current techniques have the iron coming in from the side, so look for one or more places on the sides of the iron pot with heavy grinding marks where the iron entered the mold. The grinding is done to finish the piece so that no unsightly burs or roughness mars the surface. This is a fairly modern development brought about by the ability to cheaply grind ironware. This would have wasted too much valuable time and been next to impossible for an 18th or early 19th Century founder to carry out"

The ears, patented in 1891 by Griswold, may have been a copy of a Confederate innovation. I doubt that anyone after the war would have worried much about the rights of a Rebel manufacturer who was probably defunct anyway.

Or conversely, one could say that I doubt anyone adding CSA lettering and date to an early 20th century mold would worry about exactly when the ears were patented or the fact that it didn't have a gate mark in the usual place.

For what it's worth, here's the patent: http://www.google.com/patents/US447821 As I said, I don't know anything about those ears or whether they're ever seen on cookware made before the patent date.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com