Zouave Drill

[dpalyka]

Anyone know whaere I can procure a copy?
I am curious to compare it to hardees.

[dusty27]

Re: Zouave Drill

Damon,

A Google search for "Zouave Drill" landed me with this site as a possible source for a drill book.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=5523445

[dpalyka]

Re: Zouave Drill

Damon,

A Google search for "Zouave Drill" landed me with this site as a possible source for a drill book.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=5523445

Bought, thanks so much...

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Zouave Drill

"Zouave Drill" is largely theatrical rather than military. The book Dusty referred you to is basically going to be Hardee's with the bayonet exercise (McClellan's) included. Both Hardee and McClellan studied in France and translated French manuals for US service.

Elmer Elsworth, while a state militiaman in Chicago, had a chance meeting with Charles de Villiers who had been a veteran of the French zouaves. This prompted Elsworth to study the French light infantry drill. Elsworth then took over a local militia unit and through recruiting, strict discipline and drill, transformed them into his famous US Zouave Cadets. Elsworth drilled them in his personal adaptation of the French light infantry manual and took them on tour.

Of course, the same manual that Elsworth was studying in 1857 had been studied by officers of the US Army for years. Arguably the most notable among these was Bvt. Lt.Col. William Hardee who, in 1855, published his manual of tactics which was largely based on the French manuals. As an officer in the militia and an avid reader, Elsworth was undoubtedly familiar with Hardee's Tactics.

All that said, it should be noted that the zouave drill teams who drilled in the "zouave fashion" executed heavily choreographed routines that included many manuevers not included in any drill manual. While such groups were indisputedly adept at period drill manuals, much of what constitutes "zouave drill" was theatrical and designed for impressive display rather than actual military application.

Elsworth's Fire Zouaves never attained the proficiency of drill as his hand-picked US Zouave Cadets. When forced to instill discipline into hard-drinking New York firemen, noted for their rowdiness and rough-hewn ways, Elsworth met with less success. Following his death, Elsworth's Fire Zouaves were crushed at routed at Manassas.

So, while Elsworth was very influential in spreading the "zouave craze" across the US, his "zouave drill" had much more to do with civilian entertainment than actual battlefield functionality.

For an excellent overview of Elsworth and the early zouave craze, check out the 5th New York's excellent site at: http://www.zouave.org/craze.html

[dpalyka]

Re: Zouave Drill

"Zouave Drill" is largely theatrical rather than military. I am unaware if it was ever published for public consumption or if it remained a niche work passed by word of mouth and notes throughout the history of the zouave drill team era. (Which went from the late 1850's well into the 20th century.)

Elmer Elsworth, while a state militiaman in Chicago, had a chance meeting with Charles de Villiers who had been a veteran of the French zouaves. This prompted Elsworth to study the French light infantry drill. Elsworth then took over a local militia unit and through recruiting, strict discipline and drill, transformed them into his famous US Zouave Cadets. Elsworth drilled them in his personal adaptation of the French light infantry manual and took them on tour.

Of course, the same manual that Elsworth was studying in 1857 had been studied by officers of the US Army for years. Arguably the most notable among these was Bvt. Lt.Col. William Hardee who, in 1855, published his manual of tactics which was largely based on the French manuals. As an officer in the militia and an avid reader, Elsworth was undoubtedly familiar with Hardee's Tactics.

All that said, it should be noted that the zouave drill teams who drilled in the "zouave fashion" executed heavily choreographed routines that included many manuevers not included in any drill manual. While such groups were indisputedly adept at period drill manuals, much of what constitutes "zouave drill" was theatrical and designed for impressive display rather than actual military application.

Elsworth's Fire Zouaves never attained the proficiency of drill as his hand-picked US Zouave Cadets. When forced to instill discipline into hard-drinking New York firemen, noted for their rowdiness and rough-hewn ways, Elsworth met with less success. Following his death, Elsworth's Fire Zouaves were crushed at routed at Manassas.

So, while Elsworth was very influential in spreading the "zouave craze" across the US, his "zouave drill" had much more to do with civilian entertainment than actual battlefield functionality.

For an excellent overview of Elsworth and the early zouave craze, check out the 5th New York's excellent site at: http://www.zouave.org/craze.html

Thats interesting because in researching the 11th INZ I have read several accounts of how their application of the zouave tactics gave them a serious advantage in combat as well as kickin ass in drill competitions... :)
Perhaps it is only as good as the person using it...

[markj]

Re: Zouave Drill

Greetings,

Send me your e-mail address and I'll forward two fascinating articles about Ellsworth's U.S. Zouave Cadets that I found in the 16 and 17 July 1860 "New York Times." These items discuss Ellsworth's tour through that city and provide fairly detailed descriptions of how his crew drilled.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Zouave Drill

" researching the 11th INZ I have read several accounts of how their application of the zouave tactics gave them a serious advantage in combat as well as kickin ass in drill competitions...
Perhaps it is only as good as the person using it..."

Is this coming from the men themselves or from brigade comanders, other units, opposing forces etc. Im interested in were the bias is coming from. If it is the men themselves or outside less biased accounts. It stands to reason the men themselves are going to see themselves in the highest light.

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Zouave Drill

Robert,

You beat me to the punch on that one! I totally agree.

Damon,

I'm interested to hear your details and sources on the "serious advantage" gained by the 11th Indiana by their use of "zouave tactics." In fact, I'm not even sure what "zouave tactics" are.

Looking forward to hearing your documentation.

[markj]

Re: Zouave Drill

John-Boy,

I'm working from memory but around late June or early July 1861 "Harper's Illustrated Weekly" published a series of woodcuts derived from photographs (apparently now lost) taken of Lew Wallace's 11th Indiana while it was in Evansville IN on customs duty. Indeed, I've found a newspaper letter in the Indianapolis "Daily Journal" by an 11th IVI man referring to the photographs being made and noting a Harper's representative being in camp. The 11th IVI, in fact, appeared several times in "Harper's" during the opening months of the war.

These images show the 11th IVI engaging in various aspects of "zouave drill." Numerous letters from the 11th IVI were sent back to such papers as the Indianapolis "Daily Sentinel" and "Daily Journal" and I've transcribed a number of them. These may be of some interest:

(Extract of letter from "High Private," Camp Wallace, Evansville IN, 2 June 1861--published in the Indianapolis "Daily Sentinel"):

"As has been surmised by our Indianapolis friends, we were not well pleased when we learned that three regiments had been ordered from Indianapolis, and that ours were [sic] not recognized.
And why should we not be dissatisfied, when we reflect upon the fact that ours was the first formed, and by far the best drilled regiment in the State? It is certainly under the command of the best military men in the State, and even the ranks are filled mostly with men who have had former experience in military drill--men, too, who have much pride in their regiment, and who have heretofore taken great interest in learning to drill.
But the treatment they have received very naturally has a tendency to discourage them, and induce carelessness. They seem to think that while the Zouave drill--the "double quick," "lunging," and "thrusting," "develop," "leap to the rear," and bayonet exercise, is much more efficient for battle, that stopping flatboats, rafts and saw logs, the light infantry is just as good, and does not require half the exertion to learn it. It may be all for the best for us to remain here, but it looks strange."

(Extract of Letter from "High Private," Camp McGinniss, Cumberland, Md.,
June 13, 1861. Published in the Indianapolis "Daily Sentinel," describing the engagement at Romney VA):

"The deploying and scouting about the town [of Romney] was done in the Zouave style, and in excellent manner."

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Zouave Drill

"The deploying and scouting about the town [of Romney] was done in the Zouave style, and in excellent manner."


What the heck does that mean!?

At any rate, I have no doubt that the 11th IVI was trained in zouave drill. I feel any real outcome to the usage of this drill came from the fact they were well drilled, rather than the style of drill (they were a dammed good unit). The usage of this drill as well as the different uniform probably developed a high level of espirt de corp, rather than anything else.

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Zouave Drill

Again, "Zouave drill" is nothing more than a translation of the same French light infantry tactics as used by William Hardee and the Bayonet Exercise translated by George B. McClellan in one volume

That said, the only tangible difference between "zouave drill" and the drill instructed to dozens of other volunteer regiments is that the 11th Ill was wearing quasi-zouave uniforms.

[DukeRPSC]

Re: Zouave Drill

To amplify or illustrate what John has said about the theatrical quality of the zouave drill, I refer you to some early films of the Buffalo Bill Cody's Wild West show. Zouaves were part of the show and demonstrated a number of maneuvers which are definitely not a part of any drill manual such as climbing walls using fellow zouaves' backs as a ladder; or pulling the last of the fellows over the wall by using their rifles to pull them up. They did really close order drill and wheeled about in a star-shaped formation. If they'd set it to music and hung a camera overhead looking down, Busby Berkeley would be proud.

[dpalyka]

Re: Zouave Drill

Again, "Zouave drill" is nothing more than a translation of the same French light infantry tactics as used by William Hardee and the Bayonet Exercise translated by George B. McClellan in one volume

That said, the only tangible difference between "zouave drill" and the drill instructed to dozens of other volunteer regiments is that the 11th Ill was wearing quasi-zouave uniforms.

I think you are slightly mistaken, I know for example one of the fighting techniques the 11th used is to drop to the ground and crawl towards the enemy when skirmishing then once the rebs thought they ran and stopped shooting they would jump up and engage them in hand to hand combat...
Needless to say this was sucessfull in gain ing the element of surprise... :)

[dusty27]

Re: Zouave Drill

Damon, can you post the source for this information?

Thanks

[dpalyka]

Re: Zouave Drill

Damon, can you post the source for this information?

Thanks

The letters of John Bishop and James Fogle (both 11th IN) and the book Three Years With Wallace's Zouaves: The Civil War Memoirs of Thomas Wise Durham which is a tremendouly fun read...

Also I have this etching I stumbled across in the IN archives: