Correct Hardee Hat

[CJDaley]

Re: Correct Hardee Hat

What were the hats made out of? Beaver, bear, rabbit, or some other animal or a combination? A reputable hat dealer (one listed in this chain) once told me they used nutera (sic & a non-period term). (Nutera is a relative of the rat, found down south that has water proof fur)

I believe Nutria was used, but I DON'T believe it was as common as other animal hairs used in felts.

(Felt is made when the hairs from an animal are matted together. When you pull a hair it naturally curls, all those curled hairs are matted and locked together together using 'bows' and then they are stretched and shrunk repeatedly for strength and desired thickness. Some animals hair (like human hair) isn’t designed as well to make good felt and each animal has certain qualities (water repellant, length, strength) that make it suitable for certain types of hats.)

The vast majority of reproduction hats on the market today are made from Nutria, to my knowledge, only Tim Bender uses beaver in his dress hats and other hats, but that’s not to say all of Bender’s hats are beaver, some I believe from what I’ve seen are Nutria.

Hope this helps to confuse the issue a little bit more…..

[Darrell Cochran]

Re: Correct Hardee Hat

I love this; "U.S. Regulars were often uses as shock troops where the fighting was most fierce" :sarcastic

Well, in the West - Where most of the "new" regiments including the 16th served - They were used much more readily than those in the Army of the Potomac ... Something else us "Old Army" guys can thank Little Mac for.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Correct Hardee Hat

Well, in the West - Where most of the "new" regiments including the 16th served - They were used much more readily than those in the Army of the Potomac ... Something else us "Old Army" guys can thank Little Mac for.

I would hardly consider them "shock troops", particularly Moore/Stoughtons men during the battles for Chattanooga (including 1st Battalion 16th US). Their performance there could best be described as average.

[hardtack1864]

Re: Correct Hardee Hat

Well, anyway, were the hats of the time made of Beaver, wool, or something else and would it just be a hodge pouge?

[CitizenSoldier]

Re: Correct Hardee Hat

Greetings,
In purchasing a reproduction M1858 Uniform Hat, one should look for the following characteristics that are prevalent in extant identified army hats.

1. fur felt construction
2. black japaned leather sweatband
3. 1/4" to 5/16" black silk ribbon around the crown...with a bow on the right
4. painted black oilcloth label with a gold printed makers mark
5. two rows of brim stitching
6. an outer covering of shellac
7. Common felt thickness ranging from 1/16" to 7/64"
8. Common crown height is 5 1/2" although there are varients
9. Common brim width being around 2 1/2" to 3 1/4"

There are extant uniform hats out there with maroon sweatbands and a black paper label. However these are thought to be a late war contract and were likely not issued during the war as surviving examples are generally in almost mint condition and lack provenance.

One can't go wrong in purchasing thier reproduction army hat from Tim Bender. I feel he offers the best product and customer service out there.

I hope this helps,
Darrek Orwig

[Boy of '61]

Re: Correct Hardee Hat

Greetings,
In purchasing a reproduction M1858 Uniform Hat, one should look for the following characteristics that are prevalent in extant identified army hats.

1. fur felt construction
2. black japaned leather sweatband
3. 1/4" to 5/16" black silk ribbon around the crown...with a bow on the right
4. painted black oilcloth label with a gold printed makers mark
5. two rows of brim stitching
6. an outer covering of shellac
7. Common felt thickness ranging from 1/16" to 7/64"
8. Common crown height is 5 1/2" although there are varients
9. Common brim width being around 2 1/2" to 3 1/4"

There are extant uniform hats out there with maroon sweatbands and a black paper label. However these are thought to be a late war contract and were likely not issued during the war as surviving examples are generally in almost mint condition and lack provenance.

One can't go wrong in purchasing thier reproduction army hat from Tim Bender. I feel he offers the best product and customer service out there.

I hope this helps,
Darrek Orwig

Does Tim Bender have a web page? Had found one link to a web page of his, but it was no good.

Thanks,

Andy

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: Bender's Address

Tim Bender

https://www.benderhats.com

[markmason]

Re: Correct Hardee Hat

I am studying an Army Hat right now (unkown owner). The quick particulars are HEIGHT 6.0" BRIM 3.0" 1/16' thick black fur felt, double row stitching 4 stitch per inch (somewhat sloppy stitch pattern), bright red sweatband made of kid leather and very thin 3.0" width attached approx.1/8" spacing between stitches, U.S. ARMY label of typical pattern Size 3, one light blue hat cord, ostrich feather, Infantry bugle emblem fixed to the front. Will Post picture soon for your reference.

Hope this helps.

[Clark Badgett]

Re: Correct Hardee Hat

There are extant uniform hats out there with maroon sweatbands and a black paper label. However these are thought to be a late war contract and were likely not issued during the war as surviving examples are generally in almost mint condition and lack provenance.

Darrek Orwig

Here we go again the usual all this or all that color argument. Is it possible that we can progress past this mindset? Just accept the fact that both types were definately made. Until there is a more definative way to accertain if the marron lined versions were indeed late/post war then this is just opinion.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Correct Hardee Hat

Here we go again the usual all this or all that color argument. Is it possible that we can progress past this mindset? Just accept the fact that both types were definately made. Until there is a more definative way to accertain if the marron lined versions were indeed late/post war then this is just opinion.

Im with Clark on this. Unless there is concrete proof that there was a specific regulation change on an given item, or that there was contratorX contracting item X after X date. It is impossible to say for certain if something is prepostmid war.

[coffee boiler]

Re: Correct Hardee Hat

I am studying an Army Hat right now (unkown owner). The quick particulars are HEIGHT 6.0" BRIM 3.0" 1/16' thick black fur felt, double row stitching 4 stitch per inch (somewhat sloppy stitch pattern), bright red sweatband made of kid leather and very thin 3.0" width attached approx.1/8" spacing between stitches, U.S. ARMY label of typical pattern Size 3, one light blue hat cord, ostrich feather, Infantry bugle emblem fixed to the front. Will Post picture soon for your reference.

Hope this helps.

Nice description mark.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Correct Hardee Hat

I am studying an Army Hat right now (unkown owner). The quick particulars are HEIGHT 6.0" BRIM 3.0" 1/16' thick black fur felt, double row stitching 4 stitch per inch (somewhat sloppy stitch pattern), bright red sweatband made of kid leather and very thin 3.0" width attached approx.1/8" spacing between stitches, U.S. ARMY label of typical pattern Size 3, one light blue hat cord, ostrich feather, Infantry bugle emblem fixed to the front. Will Post picture soon for your reference.

Hope this helps.

Is this hat in a public or private collection? Any idea of the contractor?

[yipper]

behold the nutria

Gents,

In the “for what its worth" department, nutria are native to South American and were first introduced into the United States in the 1930’s in south Louisiana.

http://nis.gsmfc.org/nis_factsheet.php?toc_id=213

Nutria are surprisingly widespread now http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/special/nutria/

I have been unable to locate any information regarding the importation of nutria products into the US for hat production in the 1860’s.

Regards,

geoffrey lehmann

[CitizenSoldier]

Re: Correct Hardee Hat

Here we go again the usual all this or all that color argument. Is it possible that we can progress past this mindset?

Would that be the mindset of utilizing common characteristics of known identified extant uniform hats to help us reach the conclusion on what a reproduction of a common army hat should look like?

Just accept the fact that both types were definately made.

I think you're possibly confused, please reread my post.

Until there is a more definative way to accertain if the marron lined versions were indeed late/post war then this is just opinion.

It's a theory based on surviving material culture, this really isn't a new idea...people called historians do it all the time.

Darrek Orwig

[kent-tax]

Re: behold the nutria

In the 19th century, it was called something else. Nutria is a 20th century term. Can't remember it right now. I will have to look it up.