Cartridge packages

[Tarheel]

Re: Cartridge packages

You may wish to consider purchasing my modest little offering "Making Cartridges" which The Watchdog has recently published (all profits go directly to excellent preservation causes). I've covered most of the common types; .58cal, .69cal ball and .69cal buck and ball and also the method I use to make up the packages. I hope this helps.
Patrick Reardon,
The Lazy Jack Mess, UK

[Marc29thGA]

Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Comrades,

I wanted to finally share the fruits of my winter project (one of many any way): During the long Maine winter I did a lot of digging on the Net, AC Forum and books for information cartridges and how to make them for my Enfield. I utilized David Minshall’s on line article on making Enfield cartridges as well as “Rifle Ammunition” by Arthur B. Hawes, reprinted by Thomas Publications as my primary sources. Lots of pictures in various books and on line helped me as well.

In the attached picture you will see my “1st Generation” Enfield cartridges and packages. The cartridges on the right were done for experimentation only with 3M masking paper for the outer paper. The ones on the left utilized standard photo copy paper. The stiff inner paper for holding the powder was made using old company letter head (that was destined for the trash due to changes in the company) which seemed to work well for the stiffness as it is a heavier paper. The “bullet” is half a cotton ball. I dipped the outer tube in beeswax (I didn't have any tallow to mix in with it). The wrappers for the cartridges are 3M wrapping paper cut to specified size in “Rifle Ammunition” and I did my best to recreate the print on my computer from my sources and fed the paper into my printer. Finally, I tied them using cotton string.

Please remember that these are my 1st Generation and I am still looking to improve them. Paper is my definite challenge and I have acquired another type of paper that seems a little lighter than the copy paper. I have only rolled a couple practice tubes and need to do more as I am working out some kinks in tying the “bullet” end of the outer tube. 1st Generation’s were twisted and pushed in. I’m still pursuing perfection…

I wanted to share this project earlier, but hadn’t gotten around to it. This weekend I attended an M… event (I know, I know…) and had two occurrences with my cartridges which made me smile and feel some satisfaction with my efforts:

During the first inspection of the day, I threw the Sgt. Major (and former Ord. Sgt.) of my unit’s umbrella organization for a loop when he checked my cartridge box and didn’t know what to think of my rounds. I explained to him they were the correct round of the Enfield pattern, but he was thinking I was overloaded on powder due to the size and skeptically looked at me and the round he held in his hand. He asked to inspect the round, I whole heartedly agreed, he opened it and was satisfied that I was “safe”.

Later in the day, during another inspection, the Ord. Sergeant was checking cartridge boxes and stopped again at me. He pulled out another round and questioned me. I told him the story of what the rounds were and offered him the chance to inspect once. He declined and said I was all set.

In hind site, maybe I should have approached the Ord. Sgt to show him my “non-standard” looking rounds before inspection. At the same time, I felt justified in my efforts to recreate something as accurately as I could with the information I had at hand and could find using “search.” It also encouraged me to do more.

Any comments and critiques would be welcome to help me improve on what I have done so far.

Mods: If this isn’t the best place for this thread, please do move to the better location.

Thanks in advance,

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Hallo!

You are to be commended on your efforts!
Keep up the good work.

Curt
Memories of 1988 Mess

[1stMaine]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Mark,

Remember when we were discussing packing boxes for Enfield cartridges?

Look what I found:

http://www.researchpress.co.uk/firearms/britain/enfield/enfieldcartridge06.htm

According to the article, Enfield rounds were packed in barrels, with a cylindrical tin down the center to hold the paper packets of percussion caps.

Of course, label-wise, this is excellent:

http://www.thomaspublications.com/civilwarprojectiles/articles/wrappers_primer.htm

I find it quite interesting that the Enfield label is done with red ink.

Huh...

[Pritchett Ball]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Awesome...ANOTHER Enfield cartridge "nut" on the ACBB!:D"

Hey, that is quite a start you have...your label looks great, as does your cartridges. It looks like you have copied the earlier style of
Enfield cartridge, I'd be glad to help you out with the latter style that uses the gummed strip, and the shorter "outer" wrapper. (See attachment below)
The style you have copied was also used by the Confederate Arsenals...so your good to go there. I have some British and Confederate Enfield Cartridge AP labels I'd be glad to share with you, plus other idea's on what else you can use for the "bullet".

What cartridge box are you using?
PM me, or email me.
Respectfully:

Kevin Dally

[Marc29thGA]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Curt & Kevin – thanks for the compliments!

Tim – yes I do remember. I have that article and only wish my woodworking skills enabled construction of a barrel I have made a pretty decent ammo crate based off the one on display at GNMP visitor center, Ord. Manual Specs and similar photos. The second link is a new one and I have seen other pictures of that package from Ludlow Brothers. Perhaps red was the color ink they used internally or maybe specifed by the British Gov't? It is also interesting to note that in that package, the rounds are parallel to the print instead of perpendicular as with other wrappers.

Kevin – sending you an email.

[Pritchett Ball]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Here is one Relic web site with a couple of original British AP's, one in red ink, the other in black ink on the label...

http://www.cw1861.com/1Originals.htm

Also this Confederate Augusta Arsenal pack...

http://www.horsesoldier.com/catalog/m15425.JPEG

Some times the labels on British AP's are put on sideways...just depended who was doing the wrapping at the time, I guess

Kevin Dally

[Resaca]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Marc,
Those look fantastic! I've been working on printing those wrappers on a printing press at work for my pards. Yours look great. I've also tried to print some of those "Ludlow Brothers" labels in red (off of that relic site,cw1861) but haven't got the font quite right yet. I used some newsprint that was a little heavier weight than those "end rolls" you can get at the newspaper office. The color of the paper appeared to be pretty close to the originals from what I could see.
You've done your homework and it shows, keep up the good work.


Tony Patton
Blue Ridge Mess

[wmkane]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Where are you guys getting the stamps? I'd LOVE to have a stamp to use for my own cartridges, but don't have a clue on where to obtain one, or have it made.

[1stMaine]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Bill,

Most shipping places like "Main It For U", etc, can order rubber stamps of virtually anything you want, within size limits. You need to supply them with the full size copy of what you want, exactly how you want it, and they send it out to be made up. Staples used to offer this service as well.

Respects,

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Hallo!

And office supply stores often make up rubber stamps.
Depending upon the size of the stamp, hereabouts they will run from about $8 to $25 for a medium to large stamp. (Costs can also be shaved by going to scrap-booking/art stamp stores where one does not have to pay for the fancy lathe turned handles seen on "classic" rubber stamps).

The harder part in getting stamps made can be that the maker wants "'camera ready art" to make the stamp from, and charges heavily if they have to produce the "art" themselves. However, now in the age of computers and scanners, it is easier than in the Way Back Daze.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Marc29thGA]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Hi everyone,

The printing on my wrappers was done in Word. I toyed with different fonts until I had one that looked close to the pictures I had available. I set the size of my paper (Page Setup) to match what was specified by the British Government. From there it was playing with the overall font sizes until it looked correct when the 10 round were wrapped. I cut my wrapping paper to size and fed it in my printer. The ink jet is not period correct to the 1860’s, but maybe if you have a dot matrix….:p

If anyone is interested, I’d be happy to share my file and from there you could use it as I did in the picture or to have a stamp made from. People have shared their labors with me, so I’d glad to pass on mine. Just shoot me a PM or email and I can take care of it when I am home from work for the day.

Kind regards,

[Pritchett Ball]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

OK... if you are crazy enough to make Enfield style cartridges, you would of course need AP labels to pack em in.

The ones I have posted below are some of the ones I created on Micro Soft Word...and I hope I don't have to go thru THAT for a while!

The Selma AP label I had seen only in a B & W photo, and it "looked" like it was stamped on a off-white paper wrapper.

The Augusta labels I copied from the picture I posted earlier of the Augusta AP, it of course was printed on white-off white paper, cut and glued to a brown wrapping paper.

The red British label was the first one I came up with, and as originals, you would print it onto brown paper. I have the same wrapper with 1863, and 1864 dates

The Ludlow labels are for the "Gummed Strip" that joins the shorter Outer wrapper to the Powder cylinder-inner wrapper, as per the latter style of cartridge...The only paper I have to work with is green construction paper, so I print em out on a sheet of that, and cut em down to proper size.

I have no hard claim on these labels, y'all can use em. Geoff Walden was a BIG help to me in the making of Enfield style rounds.
Enjoy!

Kevin Dally

I have not had a day off work since July 4th...so I hope all this posts OK for everyone!

[tommy303]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

From correspondence with the British National Army Museum archivist, it would appear that British arsenals shipped cartridges in quarter barrels, as described on the research press.co.uk link, as well as in wooden ammunition boxes. The latter were officially, Box, Small Arms, Ammunition, and were made of deal for home service and mahogany or teak for tropical service. A tin for holding percussion caps occupied the centre, with packets totalling 440 rounds packed to either side (although I have seen a reference to another ammunition box holding 560 although this might be a reference to a quarter case that was also used in transport).

It would appear that in the British Service at least, the quarter barrels were used for shipments to overseas stations and once at their destination were emptied and the cartridge packets and caps transferred to the wooden ammunition boxes, the latter being more convenient for transport by mule or wagon on campaigns.

I would assume that the Confedrate army received imports in quarter barrels and reissued the ammunition allotments in locally produced and designed ammuntion chests.

As to the cartridge packet labels, most British made packets appear to have the label printed in black ink directly on the wrapper at a right angle to the axis of the cartridges. Those made by Ludlow, at least from the several packets i have seen, are printed in red and the lettering is in line with the cartridges. That might be a peculiarity of that company, although the sampling is too small to do more than speculate.

Thomas Fuller

[Pvt Ziggy]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Pards,
When rolling enfield cartidges would you fold the end or twist?

Thanks,

Kent Ziegenhagen