Cartridge packages

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

My Question is, what are you using as a former for your arsenal packs?

I can't get mine that neat (of course i have two left hands).

[tommy303]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Hi Bob,

I have used in the past an open-ended and open-topped box of wood that I cobbled together. The sides of the box are just wide enough for five cartridges laid in side by side and alternating bullet-end to powder-end; the length of the box is about two inches longer than the length of the cartridges. First lay in the wrapping sheet so that the label is centered and the sides are up, then lay in the first layer of five cartridges followed by the second layer. Fold the open sides over and paste closed, then the ends are closed with a triangular fold. The whole is then tied with coarse twine.

Thomas Fuller

[27thNCdrummer]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

I think it would be interesting to note that my research indicates that most Confederate soldiers with Enfields were getting the cheap Confederate made knockoffs not the true English made rounds.

There were some Confederates who received the true English rounds from time to time but I think for the most part they were receiving Confederate made goods.

The sharpshooter battalions on the other hand hated the Confederate made rounds and would only use the English made stuff.

[Marc29thGA]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Bob,

There use to be an article on Lazy Jacks’ site on making cartridges that had plans for the “jig” I use. It was made of scrap pieces of 1 x 4 lumber – 3 pieces total - one for each end and one for the base. The space between the ends is about 2 and 5/8 inches. I lay the string and wrapper in the area between the ends and stack the rounds. From there, it is just a matter of folding the ends and tying.

I usually just use the jig to get things started then finish external to the jig. It just seems to work best for me that way.

The article on the L.J. site is gone now, but I believe is now available as a publication through The Watchdog.

Kind Regards,

[Army30th]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Try this link, it works for me:

http://www.lazyjacks.org.uk/cartrdge.htm

[Army30th]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Here's part 2:

http://www.lazyjacks.org.uk/cartrdge2.htm

[Marc29thGA]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Thanks for the Links!

The one I have in My Favorites for the L.J. article index does not list it anymore - strange...

Kind Regards,

[Tarheel]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

As the author of the article on the Lazy Jack site may I add my modest contribution to this discussion. The Watchdog publication, which has been referred to, is a very much better version of my original articles and I urge those interested to purchase it because, as has been mentioned previously, all proceeds go directly to worthy preservation causes. The packaging jig I made, or Folding Box to use its 19th century term, is simplicity itself and is drawn and described in The Watchdog booklet. However, not in any sense considering myself an expert in these matters, I do have a question or two on cartridge packages. Never having seen an original package (not too common in the UK!!!) I would welcome some advice as to the type and weight of paper used. Was it similar to the paper used for cartridge tubes or was it heavier? Also, mention has been made in this discussion of packages being glued or pasted closed prior to being tied with string. Is this correct? I had assumed that, with the use of the Folding Box, the package was simply tied thus, by untying, allowing rapid access to the contents when required. Is this assumption correct? I would welcome advice.
Patrick Reardon
The Lazy Jack Mess, UK

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Thanks for the links and input guys.

[Army30th]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

I have never seen any that were glued shut. Having never handled an original pack of cartridges (they are expensive!!), but all the one's I've seen were just folded closed and tied with a string of some description.

I am not an expert by any means, and I am sure that others have been making them longer than I. I've made bundles since 1989. The paper I used in making my bundles is similar to brown butcher's paper. It can be purchased by the roll. Not sure about that in the UK. I've used paper grocery sacks, as well as parcel post wrapping paper. When I first started making them, I measured what a stack of cartridges 2 deep by 5 wide would be, cut a block of wood to that dimension and folded the paper around the block. I removed the block and stuffed the cartridges inside. I do it way differently now, using a folding box as was done then.

[Marc29thGA]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

I’ve never had the privilege of handling an arsenal pack, unfortunately. My experience is on line and in the books.

It does appear to me that labels were glued on the wrapper and then bundle tied. Of those pictures I’ve seen, the one attached that Kevin Dally (Pritchett Ball) sent me shows separate labels that appear to be glued over the folds of the AP wrapper in the middle and bottom. The middle does have one wrap of twine where the bottom one does not – maybe it has fallen off over time. (The bottom one could lead to the assumption that some APs were sealed by gluing.)

In “Rifle Ammunition…” by Arthur B. Hawes, page 45, it says of the British APs: “The packets are then fastened with strong twine and packed in barrels…” No mentioning of gluing. On that same page it says of the wrapping paper: “…upon which paper the description of the cartridge contained is marked.”

As Mr. Vanderburg says, I also use with good results, the lightweight brown package wrapping paper to make my APs.

Pvt. Ziggy: The cartridge ends are tied.

Mr. Reardon, Your article inspired me to make my cartridges better and dig for more and more information. This eventually lead me to undertaking these Enfield cartridges. Your book from the Watchdog is on my Christmas list.

Thanks everyone,

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

I do it way differently now, using a folding box as was done then.

I've tried the folding box but either I'm dumber than your average laborer in the 1860s or none of them have two left hands equipped with 12 thumbs.

If the rebs had gotten a close look at some of my efforts they would have laughed themselves to death. That's why I asked what other guys are doing but I am leaving out the glue part.

[majdoc]

Re: Enfield Cartridges *Open for Comment*

Great work Marc.
Keep us informed
I my try my hand when this weather isn't hot enough to melt wax or cook an egg on the sidewalk.:D

[Tyler Gibson]

Arsenal packs

Gents,

looking through the forums on this page, and looking through books and Magazine articles, and through my Cartridge making kit, I noticed one thing, the lack of an authentic arsenal pack to put the finised rounds in. I asked my pards, and I found instructions on how to make authentic cartridges, and how to pack them, but I have yet to find a good repro of a label( discounting the "St. Louis Arsenal" and the "Selma Arsenal" Enfeild packs) I know that the paper is to be 6x9", but that is the extent of my Knowledge. Does anyone have a label that they are willing to share?


thanks

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Arsenal packs

Hallo!

You may want to cruise through the SEARCH feature on this one.

In brief and to over-generalize...

For Federals, the lack of authentic arsenal stamped bundle wrappers is historical. With the exception of St. Louis, the five federal arsenals of construction did not use stamps during the War.

Now, the Confederates often did their own thing.

At any rate, there are vendors offering "stamps," however, there are also bogus fantasy stamps from flim-flammed Xerox cut-and-paste samples from the 1980's made by altering pre War dated labels.

Federal arsenal bundle wrappers were 6 1/2 X 9 inches, per the ORDNANCE MANUAL.

Curt