UNION officer's frock pattern?

[smithjub]

I've been reading the string about the CS frock pattern and was wondering if the same problems applied to US officer's frock coats. I'm looking for a pattern for a junior officer's frock and have had no success up to now. Childs does not have one, and I certainly don't want a mainstream pattern..

Does anyone know of anyplace I could find one? I realize buying a ready made coat is the easiest route, but that takes half the fun out of it.

Thanks in advance.

[Blum]

Re: UNION officer's frock pattern?

Hi,

Go with the Homespun Patterns. It is a not so bad line of patterns.
You can bought them via James Country Mercantile, who’s the owner of the brand or via several mainstreams sutlers retailers like Fall Creek Sutlery.

http://www.jamescountry.com/

Be careful with the size. I think they size a little small. If you need a 42, order a 44 or 46.

[JimConley]

Re: UNION officer's frock pattern?

Blum,
I'd be careful recommending patterns from a "sutler." How reliable can these patterns be? What backs the authenticity and/or effectiveness of said patterns? James Country Merchantile and Fall Creek Sutlery are not regarded well here. And please remember that you said they "are not a bad line of patterns." I do not think this helps our friend's situation because he should be looking for a great pattern rather than "not bad." Also, the original post does mention that he wishes to stay away from patterns from mainstream sources. This thread should still be unanswered, waiting for one that can point a finger to the answer of this question, properly.

[Blum]

Re: UNION officer's frock pattern?

Jim,

Homespun patterns are well know in Hardcore an progressive CW reenacting and are very good patterns. I said «*not so bad patterns*» because I think they are maybe just a little less good than CC or Past Pattern ones.
In the Fall 2001 Watchdog issue, there is an review of two patterns from the line : the civilian sack coat and the civilian trousers and the Dog recommend them.
The just improvements suggestions they do are about the lack of historic notes, describing the originals garments in details, provide fabrics recommendations and so on ! Not for the quality of the patterns by themselves.

These patterns are also recommended by several hardcore units.

You can buy them via mainstream sutler or also via authentics sutlers.

If you prefer, you can buy several patterns from «*Homespun patterns*» with Bill and Glenna Jo Christen Curiosity shop. Bill Christen is the Watchdog editor. Do you feel a little reassured now ?
But…these patterns are the same if you buy them with a mainstream sutler or via an authentic sutler ! ;)

http://home.earthlink.net/~gchristen/

I agree with you. We must be careful when we recommend to buy something from mainstream sutlers and do no compromises about authenticity.
But sometime a mainstream sutler may have one and only one good authentic item. It is for us to be very prudent for picking this one.

[Will Eichler]

Re: UNION officer's frock pattern?

Jared, Blum, Jim, et. al,

I recommend caution when using the Homespun Patterns. Yes, I have about 14 different patterns of theirs in my boxes. The problem is two-fold.

1. Most frustrating to a young sewer (not sure how experienced you are Jared) is that the patterns are poorly graded (sized up). The frock is arguably one of the toughest patterns to make in our hobby/avocation. Starting with a poorly graded will only make it harder to get to fit correctly. If I remember from before I threw it away and went with a pattern a friend had pulled personally off an original (she's a period seamstress for a living) the shoulders had been enlarged way too far and were oversized. In short, be sure to have someone at a phone call or stop over distance to help you with the pattern.

2. I own two of their single breasted vest patterns, the "Civillian" and "military style." Both listed to be from originals. Guess what? If you lay the main pieces over each other (especially the vest fronts) they are the same. This leads me to question how close they stayed to the "original" piece.

I hope you have good luck with your frock. I surely find sewing my own gear both rewarding and a great way to save some cash. I'd advise Hainsworth in England to get your wool from. I just wish I had a frock pattern to point you to. Hopefully, my friend will release her pattern soon.

Best of luck,

Will

[Matt Caldwell]

Re: UNION officer's frock pattern?

Jim,

Homespun patterns are well know in Hardcore an progressive CW reenacting and are very good patterns. I said «*not so bad patterns*» because I think they are maybe just a little less good than CC or Past Pattern ones.
In the Fall 2001 Watchdog issue, there is an review of two patterns from the line : the civilian sack coat and the civilian trousers and the Dog recommend them.
The just improvements suggestions they do are about the lack of historic notes, describing the originals garments in details, provide fabrics recommendations and so on ! Not for the quality of the patterns by themselves.

These patterns are also recommended by several hardcore units.

You can buy them via mainstream sutler or also via authentics sutlers.

If you prefer, you can buy several patterns from «*Homespun patterns*» with Bill and Glenna Jo Christen Curiosity shop. Bill Christen is the Watchdog editor. Do you feel a little reassured now ?
But…these patterns are the same if you buy them with a mainstream sutler or via an authentic sutler ! ;)

http://home.earthlink.net/~gchristen/

I agree with you. We must be careful when we recommend to buy something from mainstream sutlers and do no compromises about authenticity.
But sometime a mainstream sutler may have one and only one good authentic item. It is for us to be very prudent for picking this one.

Blum,
My personal experience working with thier patterns has been a mixed bag. Their vest pattern works very well, however, their Military Commerical Sack Coat pattern is the pits. The sleeves are horribly oversized in the armcye and at the cuff. I ended up throwing away the sleeves and redrafting new ones from scratch. When I initially tried to set the sleeves, with the stock pattern, it looked like I was wearing a feed sack with Edwardian ladies sleeves for arms. They were just too large to ease it. The cuffs were about 5-6" too wide to be correct or comfortable.

The frock coat pattern was way off as well. The shoulder seams were nowhere near close to being even. This is a common effect of gaging since there are not drafted off the Centerpoint system. I reccomend that anyone intereted in this method contact Jim Ruley as he has Devere's system down to a science (email me off the board if you wish his contact info).

My thoughts overall - Homespun is a good base pattern that is effective if you are able to modify it to reflect details that you have observed off originals. Other than that, always make a test garment as you will be, 95% of the time, going to be making alterations to the pattern to get a correct fit and an authentic look.

I wish I could offer a place to get a stock pattern, but unless you can sweet talk Childs or Daley into cutting a kit, you are stuck with what is available.

[mdbucktail]

Re: UNION officer's frock pattern?

Gents,
I agree with the notion that we should be careful here. I was given a sack coat pattern from "Period Impressions". Not being sure how correct this set of patterns is I refuse to use it until I can find out more. I do want to sew my own SA blouse.... sometime soon. But, will not use a pattern that isn't right.
I also wish there were a correct jr officer frock pattern.... the search continues.

[Silas]

Re: UNION officer's frock pattern?

The question concerns union frocks. Like everyone else, I'll not specifically answer it. I will note my experience with Confederate frocks.

There is no pattern on the market worth owning. I own a homespun pattern. I tried several different mock-ups of the body before tossing the pattern aside. I used a County Cloth jacket pattern for the upper body, but used the skirt pattern from the homespun frock.

I made two jackets from this system. The first one was double breasted and is okay. I created lapels based upon the homespun pattern and attached them to the CC jacket. Compensating for the difference in fronts from a single breasted to a double breasted coat was tougher than it sounds. On the whole, the double breasted frock is okay.

The second frock is single breasted and is excellent. There was a learning curve from the first frock which made the second frock easier and better.

I will note that frocks are bloody hard to create. I've sewn many jackets, coats, shirts, drawers, trousers, haversacks and other items. Frocks are by far the most difficult item to create. It's not a project for a novice sewer. This phrase comes to mind, "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."

For a Confederate coat, I'd suggest going this route. For a Union coat, I would not specifically authorize it because I lack personal knowledge about the differences between Union issued frocks and Confederate issued or nonissued frocks. It might be okay to use a quality Union shell pattern and attach a skirt, but I cannot vouch for the authenticity of doing such. Another reason for my caveat is that I don't know Union gear as well as Confederate. I'd leave that answer to someone more qualified than I to indicate if it would be okay to do such.