Veteran Volunteer Chevron

[MassVOL]

The veteran volunteer chevron as well as the service chevron were authorized but has anyone heard of soldiers actually sewing it on the sack coat? Or was this something more reserved for the frock? I can see this as being one of those things that individual commanders were sticklers about though I have not seen any photo's of guys wearing them and was curious if anyone else had. Or seen any general orders mandating their use within a unit?

[Alamo Guard]

Re: Veteran Volunteer Chevron

Let me answer your question with a question. Why if a sack coat was mainly used in the field why would they take the time to sew them on, and second of all how available would have they been to even sew on?
The amount of men who had served in the Mexican War would have been small for enlsted ranks due to age. Officers of course would have been another story.
Lastly in what geographic area were you when the man served during the Mexican War? The amount of men who served from New England during this period Im sure was minute. Coupled this with a vetern who would have enlisted 25 years later is, well you do the math.
I suggest unless you are an officer or playing the part of a grizzled old regular senior NCO you leave the stripes off any uniform.

[1stMaine]

Re: Veteran Volunteer Chevron

Comrade,

I have seen a few images of men wearing these half-chevrons, but in each case the device was worn on either a dress coat or a jacket, never on a blouse.
These half-chevrons were authorized for "Veteran Volunteer" regiments, such as the 1st Maine Veteran Volunteer Infantry. This regiment was formed from reenlisted men from the 5th, 6th, and 7th Maine Infantry regiments, in June of 1864. These men had all served one complete term of service with their original regiment, and had reenlisted prior to it's being mustered out of service. As such, they met the requirement for "one enlistment" and "service during wartime". Images of these men show them wearing them, as described, on the sleeve of the coat or jacket, halfway between the elbow and the wrist.
Other VVI remiments from the various states would have followed suite, but as such, this device would only be appropriate for wear from mid-1864 on. Any other use would have been restricted to regular army battalions, and the majority of images of regulars taken in the field show them to de wearing blouses, not coats.
Trusting this is of some small use, I remain, sir,

[MassVOL]

Re: Veteran Volunteer Chevron

Let me answer your question with a question. Why if a sack coat was mainly used in the field why would they take the time to sew them on, and second of all how available would have they been to even sew on?
The amount of men who had served in the Mexican War would have been small for enlsted ranks due to age. Officers of course would have been another story.
Lastly in what geographic area were you when the man served during the Mexican War? The amount of men who served from New England during this period Im sure was minute. Coupled this with a vetern who would have enlisted 25 years later is, well you do the math.
I suggest unless you are an officer or playing the part of a grizzled old regular senior NCO you leave the stripes off any uniform.

Well the answer to your question is that it is a matter of pride and distinction. Something for a soldier to put on his uniform that says I am a different than the average Joe and better. Same as today.

As for my question it was not specifically the service chevron I was talking about but the Veteran Volunteer chevron that was available to those soldiers who served a previous enlistment of no less than nine months and then re-enlisted. This comes from War Department General Order 191 and I believe is quoted in Customs of Service. So the number of people who are eligible for this distinction is rather large.

[MassVOL]

Re: Veteran Volunteer Chevron

Tim when you say blouse I take you to mean the sack coat is that what you mean?

[1stMaine]

Re: Veteran Volunteer Chevron

Comrade,

You are correct. The item was officially referred to as the fatigue blouse, since it was designed to be worn by the soldier on all occasions of fatigue duty and field service where the dress coat would be inappropriate.
respects,

[GeraldTodd]

Re: Veteran Volunteer Chevron

The young gents below, the brothers Robinson, of the 1st Maine Cavalry, Veteran Volunteers, is interesting as the fellow on the left is wearing service, or "veteran volunteer" stripes and obviously, niether is old enough to have served in Mexico.
These stripes would date the photo as post '63 which makes it interesting for us because they're both wearing buff sabre belts with shoulder straps and the right fella is wearing dark blue trousers.

[Clark Badgett]

Re: Veteran Volunteer Chevron

I kinda agree with Gerald on this. I've got some nice photos of 3rd KY Cav soldiers and a few of them are wearing half chevrons on both sleeves, and one of the men is wearing a sack coat with these tripes on the sleeves. These photos are also supposed to have been taken sometime earlier in the war. Most of the men are young too, and oddly enough their rank trim is not yellow either, the shade lends credibility of the rank and half chevrons being light blue or maybe white.

[1stMaine]

Re: Veteran Volunteer Chevron

Comrade Clark,

Yup, the Veteran's half-chevron was light blue, edged in red, if the period for which the half-chevron was authorised included service during wartime.
As to why these same devices should appear earlier in the war, especially worn by those whose ages would seem to argue against earlier service, remains a mystery.
Certainly there are numerous instances of men re-enlisting prior to their full term of service being up, they being administratively discharged for the purpose of reenlisting. Mostly this was done to ensure the continuation of the regiment's strength beyond it's normal term of service. These images may or may not represent such a situation.
Alternately, there could also be a mis-dating of the image. Whether this is the case with gerald's image i cannot say, and as such, it remains an enigma.
I hate to use the old term of "further research needs to be done", but in this case it certainly seems appropriate, and warranted.
Respects,

[Jefferson Guards]

Re: Veteran Volunteer Chevron

"As to why these same devices should appear earlier in the war, especially worn by those whose ages would seem to argue against earlier service, remains a mystery."

Could it be possible that these men had served a previous enlistment in a three-months outfit and later enlisted in a three years regiment upon the disbanding of the first? Just a thought.

[MassVOL]

Re: Veteran Volunteer Chevron

"As to why these same devices should appear earlier in the war, especially worn by those whose ages would seem to argue against earlier service, remains a mystery."

Could it be possible that these men had served a previous enlistment in a three-months outfit and later enlisted in a three years regiment upon the disbanding of the first? Just a thought.

A three month enlistment would not be long enough. According to Kautz in Customs of Service

Veteran
590. VOLUNTEERS who have servred at least nine months, and who re-enlist, are entitled to be called "Veteran Volunteetrs," and may wear the service chevron showing that they have served one enlistment. (G.O. No. 191, 1863)

Also I dont recall reading anywhere that they were blue bordered in red. I thought that they were just red? Can you post the photo of the stripe appearing on the sack coat?

[1stMaine]

Re: Veteran Volunteer Chevron

Comrade,

US Army Regulations, (revised 1863) pp473, para1586:

".....Service in war will be indicated by a light or sky blue stripe on each side of the chevron for Artillery, and a red stripe for all other corps, the stripe being one-eigth of an inch wide".

The regulations, of course, specify that these stripes are only to be given for each term of 5 year's enlitment, but we know that this was modified for volunteer use, due to their shorter initial enlistment periods.

respects,

[MassVOL]

Re: Veteran Volunteer Chevron

Comrade,

US Army Regulations, (revised 1863) pp473, para1586:

".....Service in war will be indicated by a light or sky blue stripe on each side of the chevron for Artillery, and a red stripe for all other corps, the stripe being one-eigth of an inch wide".

The regulations, of course, specify that these stripes are only to be given for each term of 5 year's enlitment, but we know that this was modified for volunteer use, due to their shorter initial enlistment periods.

respects,

Ahhh ok so the blue stripe was branch (the period term would be corps) specific.

[mdbucktail]

Re: Veteran Volunteer Chevron

Ahhh ok so the blue stripe was branch (the period term would be corps) specific.

Comrade,
Also, the Stripe was sewn on sacks, frocks and shell jackets. I have seen pics of veteran soldiers wearing them on all of these garments. On page 57 of the book " Photographic Album of the 42d, 149th and 150th Pennsylvania Regiments", by Patrick Schroeder, there is a photo of a Joseph N. Hoffman wearing these stripes on his shell jacket.
The caption contains some curious information. Stating that he re-enlisted on December 21, 1863. From what I have read the Bucktails were all three year enlistees. Their term of service lasting from May 29, 1861 to June 1. 1864.
The new recruits and re-enlisted veterans transfered to the 190th PVI and would have recieved these stripes then. Joseph Hoffman was killed at Spottsylvania on May12, 1864..... curious.

[billwatson]

Re: Veteran Volunteer Chevron

There's a thinking trap we sometimes fall into when the term "veteran" comes up. Fall into it with the service stripe, comes up with the Veteran Reserve Corps. You didn't need to be a grizzled old guy to have a service stripe, or to be in the VRC. You could be 17 and in the Veteran Reserve Corps; you could be a teenager and have a service stripe. You didn't even actually have to have been in combat to be in the VRC, although the odds are good you were disabled from active campaigning by a wound rather than sickness. VRC was guys who could not stand up to the rigors of active campaigning, because of wounds which rendered them less fit, even after the wound itself seemed to have healed. They were on limited duty, assigned according to how their disability was classified. Photos show that they run the full gamut of ages, from kids on up to guys in their 40s.

I mention this as an aside on the discussion.

I tend to agree that the service stripe may have seen more use than we realize. Then and now, guys tended to think of themselves as what they did. We know they came to identify strongly with corps badges in some armies, to the point where they wouldn't take off their old badges when transferred to another corps. Veteran Volunteer units were elites -- guys who had been there, done that, and were coming back for another chance to get themselves blown up. I find it nothing short of amazing that there were thousands of such guys in the Union army, and can only wonder at the dynamics going on to make that happen. I mean, we're talking war here, which even on a good day is marked by stupidity enough to make a saint weep, and they signed up to go back? Yeah, I think the stripe had its place in their world of symbols,we just need to know where, and pick our spots carefully. It's the kind of thing that can be overdone easily.