Serial and rack numbers for Confederate Enfield

[Possum Skinner]

Gentlemen,

Going along with the previous thread discussing weaponry, I have utilized the search function and come up with no matches for a quandry I have been thinking about.

Some Confederate import Enfields carry matching hand scribed serial and rack numbers on the buttplate, ramrod, and bayonet. Since I have removed all modern markings, this leaves my rifle naked, and difficult to prove ownership in case of theft.

Quote: "After Confederate agents made their purchases, certain stampings would be made on the items so as to make sure they were delivered to their intended parties. For example, on some Enfield rifle-muskets, you may observe an oval Birmingham stamp on the stock which was the exporters stamp. You may also find letters and/or numbers on the stock and even the ramrods of some weapons. Letters such as “G” or “SC” stood for the states of Georgia and South Carolina respectively. Serial numbers on the butt plate tang and the ramrod were usually rack numbers assigned by the Confederate importers when they came in off the blockade runners. These numbers should appear to be carved into the metal and not stamped. These letters and sometimes even the serial numbers were also added to swords, and other weapons as well. " Civil War Antique Preservation Society Article

Website for CWAPS article




Question 1- Would it be appropriate to mimic these markings in order to give my weapon a "serial No.", or would this be too impression limiting?

Question 2- Should we see more of this on Confederate weaponry?

Question 3- If so, what tool would have been used to do this inscribing, and where can I get one?

Attached is a photo of a Id'd Confederate imported Enfield with correct bayonet.

[JimKindred]

Re: Serial and rack numbers for Confederate Enfield

If you are worried about identification only, engrave your SSN under the butt plate or trigger guard. Out of sight and out of mind until the weapon comes up stolen.

[Possum Skinner]

Re: Serial and rack numbers for Confederate Enfield

This is not just for serial number purposes only. This is a documented practice. Is a baby's bottom clean of marks butt, ramrod and bayonet more common than a marked one? Should this or should this not be a step toward making a CONFEDERATE IMPORTED AND ISSUED ENFIELD correct. I have all the little import stamps, cartouches, and armory stamps. Wouldn't this be another step toward making it "whistle dixie"?

[JimKindred]

Re: Serial and rack numbers for Confederate Enfield

My original reply was simply dealing with your concerns for identification.

I suggest you contact G. Walden - gwalden1864@earthlink.net regarding the markings. He will be able to answer in detail your questions.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Serial and rack numbers for Confederate Enfield

"Question 2- Should we see more of this on Confederate weaponry?"

From my limited contact with bonafide Confederate used enfields I can make a couple of observations.

I have access to a 1861 Tower used by a member of the 38th Va Inf. It has no butt plate, stock or trigger guard markings other than the soldiers name.

I have a enfield stock picked up in the Crater vicinity in 1869. Butt plate and trigger guard have no markings. The stock does have the London Arms Co. stamping dated 1862 and a very light carving of "18 SC". The rest of the gun is probably still buried in Petersburg.

I have 5 enfields dug from a Confederate trench. None have any markings on the butt plates or trigger guards. Of course no wood remains so any stock markings are unknown. The ramrods are rusted to the extent that no numbers are visable.

If all 7 of these rifles were imported by the south and none were captured that seems to show that not many butt plates and trigger guards were marked. I have seen the engraved butt plates for Southern imported enfields but my understanding is only a portion were marked in this manner. The only one I saw and paid close attention to was the one on display by Greg Starbuck and another fellow, whose name I cannot remember, at Spottslyvania reenactment this year. I have seen CS enfields with the JS and anchor stamp on the stock but sometimes you have to have super vision to even pick this out.

I have seen rack numbers on two enfield butt plates. I have one on this page http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/scabbard.html


Based on the enfields I have seen, I don't think that many of CS used enfields had butt plate stamped or engraved markings. Perhaps Geoff Walden will be able to give us the benefit on his observations if he sees this thread.

However, IMO, if you wanted to mark your enfield butt plate in order to identify it easier in a stack or to put a unique number on it I think it would be correct to do so if the stamping or engraving was done correctly and you only used 2 numbers.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Serial and rack numbers for Confederate Enfield

Hallo Kameraden!

Aside from the markings that are SUPPOSED to be on BSAT, London commercial, and London Armoury "Enfields," my Rule of Thumb is twofold:

1. Stolen from Occam's Razor (The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed) and
2. When copying an original documented gun, copy the original gun.

The larger issue of markings is a tricky one, because one does not always know the (true) history, reasons, and particularly WHEN "additional "markings we placed on weapons (particularly British as they "cycled" arms to the colonies and the frontiers.).

In my limited experience with handling, and viewing, P1853 Enfields here and in the U.K., to the number of 75 or so; there are only so many markings called for with the commercial firms, called for by the British government (not to mention myriad "little" stampings and marks put here and there by the various pieces and parts makers, workers, fitters, stockers, and "inspectors.")
And some BSAT firms, for example, used the BSAT stock cartouche, others did not. Some seem not to have always stamped their firm's name behind the trigger guard plate. Etc., etc.
Beyond that, "additional" markings can be pretty much wide open as to what someone thought or needed to add and why for a particular reason.
I have an original M1861 Springfield stamped on the butt plate tang "S.C.," but I do not know why- so I cannot begin to think that it was necessarily done by South Carolina between 1861 and 1865. Might have even been "Sam's Company," a drill team using Bannerman surplus guns in the 1890's. ;-)

It had once been British army practice to engrave the company letter and rack/man number on the musket and the bayonet, on the wrist plates of "Besses," and on the bayonet sockets- to more easily keep the two together. But many originals do not.

Stampings were done with hardened steel stamps. Engravings were done with engraving tools which were often four-sided hardended steel stock shaped to different "diamond, square, or rectangle" shape to do different types of chased engraved lines.
However, to cut down on the $200-$400 cost for steel stamps, I have found that aluminum or zinc linotype on a hard wood backer can be used to
"pressure" or "emboss" instead of actually hammer stamp wood and leather
with the use of a vise. However, a half plate (4 X 5) can run $50 and a full (8 X 10) $100. But that can make up alot of tiny and sundry stamps..

IMHO, here, let the PEC Rule govern things.

And, avoid what I see one "de-farber" doing these daze either on his own or at the request of unknowing customers. He is adding stamps, by engraving, to Enfield lockplates that were only used on British government Enfields and not the BSAT/London/London Armoury Enfields used in the ACW. So, one is getting, say a BSAT with additional, incorrect, and not needed stamps- that are not correctly stamped either! I guess he/they figure "more" is better."
Wrong.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Serial and rack numbers for Confederate Enfield

Note the pics:
1) Buttplate of a CS Enfield (1861 Tower).
2) Nosecap of a Potts & Hunt documented to 12th Mass., Company H.

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Serial and rack numbers for Confederate Enfield

In addition to Curt's and Jim's excellent posts, I would add that my none of the CS-identified P1853 Enfields in the collection of the National Firearms Museum have any kind of rack markings or identification other than soldier-added markings like initials or stock carvings.

More and more, I am seeing "defarbers" adding markings in all sorts of combinations to all sorts of places. Marker's marks, guage marks, rack numbers, etc... are all available with the implication that you must get a complete set of markings to have an authentic musket. Of course, the real answer is each stamp costs money and the more stamps you "need," the more you must pay the stamper.

I have access to an original id'd Enfield. I took detailed notes and had Lodgewood reproduce the markings so my gun is a copy of a id'd original. It has gauge marks, lock markings, and a BSAT cartouche. Beyond those, all the other markings (maker's marks from Tranter and Barnett) were on the underside of the barrel and inside of the lock.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Serial and rack numbers for Confederate Enfield

One observation I have noticed lately are the number of Massachusetts marked weapons. I have a M-1841 marked from the 46th Mass. I know of two others marked similar to mine from the 47th and 51st Mass. John posted the picture of the enfield from the 12th Mass. above. A while back on the forum there was a thread on a Springfield with the SN&WTC for Massachusetts marking. Any ideas why arms from this state exhibit so many state ID markings?

[Canebrake Rifle Guards]

Re: Serial and rack numbers for Confederate Enfield

As we speak, the definative book on Civil War enfields is being written. When its published, perhaps it will answer alot of questions.

Greg Starbuck

[markj]

Re: Serial and rack numbers for Confederate Enfield

For whatever it's worth, the issue and turn-in logs of the Indiana State Armorer, Amos Ballweg, make no mention of specific serial numbers for any of the Enfields either handed to or received from Hoosier regiments. Ballweg's logbooks, currently maintained at the Indiana State Archives, break issues/turn-ins of arms/accoutrements down to the company level, are quite thorough, and definitely cover the years 1861-1863.

Our 1860's forebearers could be every bit as anal-retentive about "numbers" and "accountability" as we are today so the lack of information about such serial markings is distinguished in its absence, at least in the above case.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Richmond Depot]

Re: Serial and rack numbers for Confederate Enfield

Greg, You have my curiosity piqued. Who is writing the book on Enfields and do you know of a possible publication date? Thanks again for the Gold braid. :)

[Canebrake Rifle Guards]

Re: Serial and rack numbers for Confederate Enfield

Scott- I know the author, but I don't know that should advertise his name just yet. Don't have a publication date unfortunately but suffice to say it is being worked on.

As for original enfields, as I understand it, the only way to ascertain if an enfield is a 100% Confederate import enfield (other than a personal soldier's ID) is if it has the JS & Anchor, and the number engraved on the butt plate.

A good source of information on this is the article presented by Howard Michael Madaus entitled This Butts for You! The Significance of Marks and Engravings Found on the Butts of Confederate Enfield Rifles and Rifle Muskets.

As for reproduction enfields for CS usage, you can leave the markings off as Confederates did use non-numbered enfields, or you can have the it engraved with the import markings.

Greg Starbuck

[rogue]

Re: Serial and rack numbers for Confederate Enfield

Greg,
Where did Howie publish the "Butts..." article?
Steve Sullivan
46th Illinois
Co. Mil. Hist.

[Canebrake Rifle Guards]

Re: Serial and rack numbers for Confederate Enfield

It was published as a paper presented at Les Jensen's and Juanita Leisch's 2nd Annual Artifact forum. I have a copy of it, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to copy it as it is copyrighted. Let me check.

Sincerely,

Greg Starbuck