Fading Stock

[poncho]

Greetings all!
With all this discussion about firearms I thought I would ask a question relating to the Stock on my Armisport Springfield. I started to notice over the past 2 seasons that there is a discernable "streak" in the stock from the butt plate up to the trigger that is remarkably lighter than the rest of the stock. The same coloration is streaked around the second barrel band (ram rod side) and by the top barrel band. My question is has anybody else had this problem? Any ideas what caused it, and is there anything I can do to fix it? I've tried linseed oil but it does not seem to help. It's really odd because it wasn't an existing condition I just overlooked, this just happened the past 2 seasons. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Fading Stock

Hallo Kamerad!

"I started to notice over the past 2 seasons that there is a discernable "streak" in the stock from the butt plate up to the trigger that is remarkably lighter than the rest of the stock. The same coloration is streaked around the second barrel band (ram rod side) and by the top barrel band."

Initally, I thought you were experiencing "bleaching" or "stock finish" removal caused by teh cleaning agents you might be using running down out of the cone and down the stock as the gun is held upright for cleaning.

But, since it repeats at the band..

It sounds, to me, that the piece of Italian "hardwood" you have has a section of "sapwood" based upon where between the sapwood and heartwood on the tree the plank was sawed from that became your particular stock.
I recently looked at an Italian "Mississippi" that was carefully chosen at the factory to sneak by. The stock was laid out on a plank of sapwood/heartwood so that one side was light and the other side of the entire stock was darker!!! Split into left and right halves, right down the center line
Even on American Black Walnut, and on the originals, one sometimes finds a "section" of whiter or tanner wood as compared to the brown.

Basically you have three options, that vary in cost and ease:

1. Live with it.
2. Strip the stock, and using Tandy's Dark Brown leather dye, treat the light area with 1-3 aplications, allowing each to dry in between- until the lighter sections have been blended in and disguised and are now a visual match the the surrounding wood. Reoil/refinish, etc.
3. Replace the stock with an American Black Walnut stock.

Now that the Italians have kinda/sorta/slightly/maybe "responded" to the CW COmmunity in a small way- and are using "better" wood (Italian hardwood and sometimes even Italian Walnut or European Walnut) that is "oiled" in something- they are having a harder time "painting" beech or basswood stocks with brown "shoe polish type" paint that hides all of the grain and flaws like they used to universally do.
But, the practice is not entirely gone. And once the "stain" (paint) starts to fade from use, sunlight, and exposure- we are seeing more of the undesirable woods used.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[JimKindred]

Re: Fading Stock

Just to add to what Curt has suggested. The following is a link to an excellent article on the Civilian Marksmanship Program's website.

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/wood_cleaning_article.htm

While dealing with a later period firearm the woodworking techniques can be applied to a reproduction musket with good to excellent results depending on the amount of effort put into it. As noted in the article "Please note that the tips and considerations which follow are intended to help an entry level woodworker and are by no means complete or absolutely foolproof."

Anyway, it is well worth reading if you are reworking a stock. I have used these methods on numerous M1 Garand stocks and all have turned out very well.

[poncho]

Re: Fading Stock

Gentelmen,
Thank you for your advice, it makes sense that after ten years, the dye used to hide the flaws of the stock have worn of causing the lighter wood. One question Curt,one of your suggestions states that stripping the stock and then dying with leather dye will serve as a fix. When you say strip the stock do you mean the actual stain or just the finish on the stock? If I already stripped the poly off the stock and just have linseed oil as a finish is it still necessarry to strip the finish? Mr. Kindred, thanks for the great site!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Fading Stock

Hallo Kamerad!

"When you say strip the stock do you mean the actual stain or just the finish on the stock? If I already stripped the poly off the stock and just have linseed oil as a finish is it still necessarry to strip the finish?

Alas, yes.

Naked (air dried, kiln dried, or both together) wood has a certain "moisture" content, but for all practical purposes it is "dry." That dryness allows it to take stain (usually water or spirit/alcohol-based), as well as an oil or varnish type finish.
But, the oil finish tends to start to seal the wood (some less, some more, than others). At any rate, an oiled finished will interfer, or block the wood's ability to absorb stain or dye- so either the oil has to be removed from the wood or the layer of varnish sealing off the wood at its surface.
The only variable, or unknown, here is how much your particularly piece of wood has "drunk up." Modern Boiled Linseed Oil does not begin to seal (never really seals 100%) with just a few applications. So, it is possible that you might be able to use a Stripper or Finish Remover to pull some out some of the linseed oil out of the wood to the point that the wood can drink in enough dye to enable you to blend in the light to match the dark areas. Possibly, but not likely. :-(

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[1stMaine]

Re: Fading Stock

Comrade,

To add to what Curt has said, I have found that there comes a point in some projects where it is easier and less expensive to simply start over. Depending upon the number of hours it will take to strip your current stock, then reapply the finish, coupled with the costs of materials and the costs associated with obtaining those materials (time spent driving, gas, any tolls, etc), you may find it worthwhile to simply purchase a new unfinished stock or blank and go from there.
This is especially true since, given the nature (pardon the pun) of your current stock, it is very possible that the problem may again rear it's ugly head and you'd have to do it all over again.
There are some things that I enjoy doing, and some things I am very good at, but others where I start to value my time more than the project. It's not that I COULD'NT do it, but whether or not I SHOULD do it.
Anyway, that's just my 2-cents on the matter, and it's probably only worth about that much:) I wish you well on your project, and remain, sir,
respectfully,

[DougCooper]

Re: Fading Stock

Have noticed the same thing on my Armi-sport 61 - and entire round area of the butt is turning "blonde" rapidly. It was stripped and re-done about 18 months ago and was very even at that time. I may opt for the replacement route vice dye route. Thanks for the info guys!

[JimConley]

Re: Fading Stock

I could be wrong here, Curt? Jim? But why not lampblack? Was that not a period practice?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Fading Stock

Hallo Herr Jim:

"I could be wrong here, Curt? Jim? But why not lampblack? Was that not a period practice?

In brief, I have yet to come across an original "Springfield" with its Pennsylvania grown American Black Walnut stock that exhibited or suffered from such a problem.

Although, I have never tried lampblack in such a way. However, my impression and guess would be, that it would "blacken" the wood thus creating a different problem in the opposite direction from being too white- both in blackness, and particularly with its lacking the "brown tones" that are readily in ABW wood.
The "blackness" often seen on some surviving original guns is a result of the oil/varnish oxidizing and turning black (as it does on old oil paintings) as well as by its absorbing "environmental" dirt over the years.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt