Woolrich?

[Southernboy]

Gentlemen,

At the risk of getting beat up (again) I am going to ask the following question. I see a lot of reference here to items purchased from Skillet Licker and Chris Sullivan. It seems as though they are held in high regard. I am putting together my Federal impression and am in need of a pair of trousers. What are your opinions of the Woolrich fabric their products are manufactured from? I want to have the best I can within my budget. I did a search on the forums but only came up with one reference to the fabric, hence my question as I have no experience with it. If you are down on the fabric I would appreciate a recommendation as to what you feel is a better representation and where they can be purchased.

Thank you for your time.

[tenfed1861]

Re: Woolrich?

From what I read,Woolrich is 80% wool,20% polyester.Say away from woolrich items.I suggest buying from Daley,he makes the best Fed gear handsdown.They cost about $180 last time I checked,but if that's too much,use the WTB page.You can get a good pair of trousers for little cost.
Just my $.2
Cullen Smith

[UnionMan]

Re: Woolrich?

Chris has a great deal of information on his web site explaining his justification for using the Woolrich kersey for trousers:

http://www.bridgemicro.com/msullivan/catalog/index.htm

To sum up his argument, he feels that the Woolrich fabric more correctly represents the color, weave and weight of original kerseys; the trade off for meeting these criteria is that the material is 15% synthetic 85% wool.

He now offers trousers made with Family Heirloom material, but still continues to make both commerical and museum grade trousers in the Woolrich material.

I myself have had two pairs of Woolrich museum grade trousers and can speak to their durability and comfort, both purcahsed before he offered the Heirloom material option.

The amazing thing about Chris is that he has fully disclosed the fact that he uses a blended fabric and has never claimed otherwise, making him a truly honest man (unlike the bulk of reproduction junk which is falsely labled as 100% wool). He is a class act for sure, is extremely customer driven and you cannot support a nicer man. Whatever you buy from him, you will be happy and know exactly what you are gettting.

-Tad

Gentlemen,

At the risk of getting beat up (again) I am going to ask the following question. I see a lot of reference here to items purchased from Skillet Licker and Chris Sullivan. It seems as though they are held in high regard. I am putting together my Federal impression and am in need of a pair of trousers. What are your opinions of the Woolrich fabric their products are manufactured from? I want to have the best I can within my budget. I did a search on the forums but only came up with one reference to the fabric, hence my question as I have no experience with it. If you are down on the fabric I would appreciate a recommendation as to what you feel is a better representation and where they can be purchased.

Thank you for your time.

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Woolrich?

Mr. Sullivan is a very nice, honest and reputable gentleman.

That said, why would any authentic reenactor buy an 80/20 blend when kersey is being made of the correct weight, weave and color out of all wool?

An argument regarding weight and weave could have been made 10 years ago. However, at least two (if not more) vendors are now making correct kersey out of 100% wool so why go with something you know to be incorrect?

Mr. Sullivan has always made a correctly patterned and constructed pair of trousers. Now that he is offering 100% wool FHW kersey, it would be a mistake to purchase the Pendleton "wool" variety.

[JerseySkilletLicker]

Re: Woolrich?

Disagree, have you felt the weight of the last batch of 100% kersey that Mr. Sullivan was using? It was way too heavy and almost unusable. Just because it says 100% does not mean that it is 100% correct.

[Jeffrey Przewozniak]

Re: Woolrich?

Eallo Steve,

It can all be summed up in one quick verse from the book of Farbohva:

Synthetic element in kersey = Anachronistic, thus farby. Aviod synthetic elements in kersey.

Folks, do excuse this feeble attempt at a humorous post, but in all seriousness, Steve, ALWAYS go with what is known to be %100 correct, don't make any compromises, and you'll be just fine. Plus, you'll feel a lot better about yourself, to boot.

I am in earnest,

[privstull]

Re: Woolrich?

I agree whole heartedly that if you go the cheaper way out in buying an item that is not 100% correct, then you will end up spending more money trying to replace the incorrect item with an authentic one. You will save yourself plenty or head aches if you just save your money and buy the item from a vendor who makes it 100% correct.

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: Woolrich?

At the risk of getting beat up (again) I am going to ask the following question.

Again? That's interesting. Let not your heart be troubled my friend.

This is easy...... Go with the 100% and stay away from 80/20 blended trousers.

Since 100% kersey trousers are avaliable, I don't see any reason why someone would want the 80/20 blends.

Have fun,

[Southernboy]

Re: Woolrich?

I certainly appreciate all of your responses and advice. Thank you kindly!

[MarkTK36thIL]

Re: Woolrich?

Wrote Mr. Sullivan last summer regarding his Woolrich wool, and these were his responses. Also, Mr. Hoffman stocks Mr. Sullivan's trousers at the bottom of the page. I also believe the Orchard Hill stocks Mr. Sullivan's trousers as well.

From: "Mark-Thomas Krausz"
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 1:07 AM
Subject: US Deering Trousers

JO,
I would much appreciate that. Thanks!
Mark Krausz
B 36th IL
Prodigal Sons Mess


Mark,
Here is a reply from Chris..Hope this helps.
JO


Hi Jo,

As of this time I do not have access to any 100% wool fabrics that I
find applicable for Federal CW trousers ... at least none that I like
personally. While there are some 100% sky blue woolens out there, outside
of the FHW product, those that I have seen fail to match any of the original
trousers I have inspected over the years. Their problems revolve around
discrepancies in either color, weave or weight. Getting a good match on all
three of those factors has proven a merry chase. I concluded a while back
that if I could not make my 100% wool trousers in the right stuff (or at
least the most accurate available to date), I would not make them.
Substituting can have a more detremental effect on business than not making
them at all.

Family Heir-Loom Weavers is working on getting a new run together of
their Federal sky blue kersey in 100% wool. Pat Klein and I have been on
the phone a number of times sheparding this project. However, Pat advised me
back in April that he had
problems with the New England company that did his fulling and dyeing and is
now working with a new f/d firm down south somewhere. As of my last call in
to him a number of weeks ago the results were still pending.

Once a new stock of Federal 100% wool in sky blue is available Pat is
going to contact me to that effect. However, at the moment nothing is on
hand and at last prediction the new fabric would not be available until
perhaps sometime this summer.
As soon as Pat restocks we'll make a large buy. I will then announce that
availability on my website and will also drop you an e-mail to let you know.
However, when all of this will take place I do not know and am just waiting
on Pat's call.

Sorry I couldn't help on this one.

Best,

Chris


From: Chris Sullivan
To: "Mark Krausz"
Subject: Re: US Deering Trousers
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 9:36 PM
Hi Mark,

Thanks for your message and nice to hear from you.

At the moment we continue to wait for FHW to restock with their 100% sky blue wool. Additionally, they have not been able to give us a specific time frame when they would have it available once again. In my last communication with them they were experiencing some manufacturing difficulties with that specific fabric.

On a possible positive note I am talking with a unit that did make a purchase of some of the FHW 2002 run of sky blue 100% wool. This was a little on the light weight side and there have been some concerns about the fabric in terms of its use in trousers. We have had mixed reviews on trousers made from that 2002 run of 100%.
However, the unit is considering selling off some of the yardage their unit quartermaster purchased and we may obtain some for a couple side-order trouser projects.

I do not know how much yardage this unit is considering selling off (they didn't have much originally, about 20 yards I think) but I may get some of it for a couple 100% wool trouser projects I have been requested to do. Again, I do not know how much will be available and all we can do it wait and see what they offer in terms of liner yardage. Would you like me to keep you apprised of how this develops?

I had mentioned to the other gentlemen interested in the previous run of FHW 100% sky blue wool that I would want to mail a sample of the fabric to them. This is primarilly so they can see the weight of the fabric before they submit any orders for trousers made from it. In the past I have had a few gentlemen pass on having trousers made from it as they were concerns about its durability (since it is a lighter weight fabric). If it does become available I can mail you a swatch for your inspection.

Sorry for the lengthy answer but I did want to address your question in detail and also give you some background on what's going on with the FHW wool at this time.

Drop me a line back at your convenience if you'd like me to contact you if and when this unit sells off some of their FHW sky blue. I look to know something one way or the other in about a weeks time (5 to 7 days).

Thanks again for your message and have a great weekend.

Chris
cams@bridgemicro.com
STONY BROOK COMPANY

[Oldewalnut]

Re: Woolrich? I have to ask now;

what about those of us that purchased Chris woolrich trousers a couple of years back? The pair I have is only 2-3 years old and have been worn so few times I can count them on one hand. So, now I face the progressive dilema, according to this missive, my trousers are now "farby"!

So does this mean I can no longer attend authentic events? Are Chis woolrich trousers no longer acceptable? Don't mistake this, I want to be authentic but sometimes this constant push to upgrade can be a drain.
Most of us have to do this in stages and it really throws a wrench into the matter when something goes out of vogue and you still have other items that need replacing at the same time.

[K Bartsch]

Re: Woolrich? I have to ask now;

what about those of us that purchased Chris woolrich trousers a couple of years back? The pair I have is only 2-3 years old and have been worn so few times I can count them on one hand. So, now I face the progressive dilema, according to this missive, my trousers are now "farby"!

So does this mean I can no longer attend authentic events? Are Chis woolrich trousers no longer acceptable? Don't mistake this, I want to be authentic but sometimes this constant push to upgrade can be a drain.
Most of us have to do this in stages and it really throws a wrench into the matter when something goes out of vogue and you still have other items that need replacing at the same time.

Relax Robert :). Chris Sullivan's "museum-quality" federal trousers are as good as anyone's in the business. Wear them with pride and confidence.
Cordially,

[Jeffrey Przewozniak]

Re: Woolrich? I have to ask now;

Hi There!

So does this mean I can no longer attend authentic events? Are Chis woolrich trousers no longer acceptable? Don't mistake this, I want to be authentic but sometimes this constant push to upgrade can be a drain.
Most of us have to do this in stages and it really throws a wrench into the matter when something goes out of vogue and you still have other items that need replacing at the same time.

I know how you feel.

Remember though, that interpreting history through accurate portrayals is a constantly changing thing, much like history itself. History is ALWAYS changing, and there are ALWAYS new things to be discovered, in reenacting the US Civil War or studying the ancient Minoans. We as reenactors (who have the privilege to be considered educators) must then understand the aforementioned principle, and change with it. If we don't realize that we may have to change some aspects of our portrayal(s) due to newly uncovered facts, well, I'm sure that's a school of thought that not many progressive reenactors would agree with.

I am in earnest,

[Barry Smithson]

Re: Woolrich?

First, I have a pair of Chris’s museum quality Deering trousers that I love. I looked at the FHW & Woolrich samples that Chris sent before I decided. I chose the Woolrich.

What is more important to the members on the board; wrong color, wrong weave and wrong weight but correct fiber content or the opposite? I came down on the side of correct color, weave, and weight and 15% synthetic content.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Woolrich?

Are we guilty of comparing reproductions with other reproductions or with originals? It makes a difference. In the process to discover the least wrong answer within an acceptable range of product solutions, this may be an important clue.

In addition, I haven't seen anyone mention the sky blue kersey offered by County Cloth (yet), which a good number of detail oriented folks have been quite happy with for a good number of years, nor has there been much mention of the once common chlorine test for non-natural fibers. When this topic cycles around about every six months, someone invariably mentions the use of man-made fibers in 100% wool (not quite as pure, by law, as virgin wool) for the purpose of lubrication.

Just some additional thoughts from the last few cycles of this topic.

Charles Heath