Officer Sword

[Boy of '61]

Does a officer have to carry a officer style sword or could he carry a cav. style sword?

Thanks,

Andy Miller

[flattop32355]

Re: Officer Sword

Does a officer have to carry a officer style sword or could he carry a cav. style sword?

Thanks,

Andy Miller

Depends on whether he is a cavalry officer or an infantry officer. Though you can never say "never", most would have followed their branch regulations.

[RN_PAC]

Re: Officer Sword

As a point of interest pertinant to the thread, Francis Barlow was known to have carried a cavalry saber for at least part of his career as a general officer commanding a division of infantry, and he is pictured with what appears to be an 1860 cavalry saber in a famous photograph of 2nd Corps commander W.S. Hancock and his three division commanders on the Overland Campaign of 1864 (Barlow, Birney and Gibbon).

[markj]

Re: Officer Sword

In a number of cases, the answer to your question is "neither--they used something else." Officers on both sides were known to known to carry antebellum militia swords (e.g., those with "eagle" or "knights-head" pommels often obtained from places like Horstmann Brothers of Philadelphia), imported British, French, or German items, swords of other services (e.g., U. S. Navy), or even RevWar antiques.

An example of the above is a report I found, in a July 1861 edition of the Indianapolis "Daily Journal," describing an engraved U.S. Navy officer's sword that was captured at Rich Mountain, (Western) Virginia. This sword apparently belonged to an officer of a Virginia regiment and was abandoned when the Confederate works at the Hart Farm were overrun by Federal troops and its defenders were killed, captured, or routed.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[48Sarge]

Re: Officer Sword

You also have to take into account that officers purchased their own uniforms and equipment. So while most would have tried to maintain their branch regulations, many would have carried what suited them. That's part of the reason you saw a lot of variation and myriads of styles. It was also a big deal for a Confederate officer to carry his grandfather's sword from the Rev War. And a lot of regiments were formed out of exsiting militia units. Most officers would have used the same sword they used in their militia company. Just my two cents but I hope it helps.

[markj]

Re: Officer Sword

Attached is a nice group image, dated December 1864, of the company and staff officers of the 3rd Pennsylvania Heavy Artillery. You will note they are posing with a wide variety of personal edged arms. For best viewing, kick up your "Word" viewer to around 500%.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[hardtack1864]

Re: Officer Sword

Robert Shaw used a "toy sword" as he called it at one of the valley battles he was in, because he left his sword in the baggage, so he used a durmmer boys sword. Though he only used it for one battle.

[kemper_rifles]

Re: Officer Sword

Does a officer have to carry a officer style sword or could he carry a cav. style sword?

Thanks,

Andy Miller

Yeah, either would be acceptable. I used to do cavalry, carried an 1840 wristbreaker. Used it for intantry officer impression too. In addition to Francis Barlow, George Pickett carried a cav saber, the M1840.

[GeraldTodd]

Re: Officer Sword

The image of the 3rd Pennsylvania Heavy Artillery is interesting. All that fancy dress, yet all the dents, dings, and bends in the scabbards.

[nick19thind]

Re: Officer Sword

Ever read Sharpe? It was common for British officers to use cavalry swords, American officers 50 years later would do the same as a sabre would be more effective in combat. McClellan used a sabre during the Mexican War.

[bAcK88]

Re: Officer Sword

Ever read Sharpe? It was common for British officers to use cavalry swords, American officers 50 years later would do the same as a sabre would be more effective in combat. McClellan used a sabre during the Mexican War.

Do you mean the Sharpe series written by Bernard Cornwell? If so, I think it should be stated that while they are a good read, the series is modern fiction.

[Coatsy]

Re: Officer Sword

Nick, while I love the Sharpe series, and Mr. Cornwell does let the readers know that he did do research for the settings of the books, I think using a fictional character as an example of why officers during the Amercian Civil War used cavalry swords is very far fetched in my opinion. (Evey read Major George Simmons', who was an actual officer of the British 95th Regiment, letters from the Penensular War in Spain? Great read on this subject)

My best advicee is to take a look at as many period pictures of Civil War officers with swords to formulate your choice of edged weapon. One of my favorite anecdotes are the accounts of General Barlow's fondness of the cavalry swords, and the picture with the II Corps generals is a good proof of this.

Officer swords are a great niche to look at when trying to determine what you want to use just because of the great variety pictured.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Officer Sword

Col. Theodore Lyman, an aide to General George Meade, wrote, in 1864 that Army of the Potomac Second Corps, 1st Division commander General Francis Barlow used to carry "a huge cavalry sabre". This is in the book, With Grant and Meade from the Wilderness to Appomattox.

Lyman's memoir is really one of the more colorful and interesting Army of the Potomac memoirs from the period of late 1863 through the end of the war. His writing is excellent and his characterizations of leading figures in the Army of the Potomac are priceless. Lynman's the fellow who referred to Barlow's appearance as "a highly independent newsboy" and called the then-commander of the Ninth Corps, "Burnside The Fat", among many others.

[nick19thind]

Re: Officer Sword

Do you mean the Sharpe series written by Bernard Cornwell? If so, I think it should be stated that while they are a good read, the series is modern fiction.

A modern fiction based on historical facts

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Officer Sword

Hallo!

"A modern fiction based on historical facts."

I believe the genre is called "historical narrative" or "historical fiction"

I am fond of the "Sharpe" series, aside from a limited budget, hit-and-miss "costuming," fictional plots, etc., etc.,. However..

As with ANY depiction of "stories" from or set in the Past, "based on" is one huge license. Where we often see this the most is in Hollyweird and TV where "history" is one of the tools used to tell a story. But as David Milch said about his DEADWOOD series... he did not "want to let History get in the way of a good story."

And perhaps the worst of all is when Hollywood takes books and makes them into a movie.. "based upon the book by..."
That "based upon " covers a lot of ground. (I wonder what H. G. Wells would have recognized much of his "War of the Worlds" in either the 1953 or 2005 movies?

At any rate, some things have "more history" than others. Nick Adams in "Johnny Yuma" or Chuck Connors in "Branded" are based on historical facts- 1. there was a Civil War.

Bernard Cornwell's "Sharpe" series are engaging historical fiction. In the books, they briefly hqave endnotes that talk about what is fictional and were 'historical events."

But as we know from Hollyweird, "based upon the book" depends upon how they operationalize "based."

Curt