Nuckolls canteens

[GaReb]

I bought an Ultimate Campaigner Nuckolls pattern canteen from Orchard Hill sutlery a few months ago as I had seen several at events around here, but I came across a thread using the search function that raised some questions. The thread I saw stated that there are no Nuckolls canteens with AoT provenance, and that most all surviving wooden canteens from the AoT were Gardner pattern. Then I read the uniform and equipment requirements for the Franklin battle and saw that Nuckolls canteens were allowed. Is this correct or not?

Pvt. Chris Anderson
5th Geo. Infantry

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Nuckolls canteens

Correct me if I am wrong...but the Knuckols canteen comes from NC...right??

Paul B. Boulden Jr.

RAH VA MIL '04

[Jason Lewis]

Re: Nuckolls canteens

From what I know about it, the canteen was made by Nathaniel Nuckolls of Alabama.

[Gallinipper]

Re: Nuckolls canteens

Correct me if I am wrong...but the Knuckols canteen comes from NC...right??

Lord's Encyclopedia lists a CS patent date of December 11, 1862 for "Army Canteen", by Nathaniel Nuckolls of Russel County, Alabama. So any usage of them in recreating an event prior to that time would probably be incorrect. As far as AOT usage goes, there is a picture of a canteen of this same pattern on pg. 40 of "Civil War Canteens" (1st Ed.) by Sylvia & O'Donnell. The words "Rebel canteen from Baton Rouge" are clearly inscribed in ink on one face. Unfortunately though, this might mean anything. The date of the last major action in that area was actually in August of '62, when Confederates tried unsucccessfully to regain control of the city. Since that pre-dates the Nuckolls' patent date listed by Lord, this would seem to make it's history even more unclear if anything. (Since some ANV provenance is known, a soldier from Louisiana serving in that army could even have even carried it home after the war, and the inscription made at that time!)

I suspect more digging may be required, no pun intended. Hope this is of some help anyway.....

Rich Croxton

[Possum Skinner]

Re: Nuckolls canteens

As an Alabamian, who only lives about 30 minutes from Russell County,(during the war Russell County included parts of modern day Lee County) I would have to seriously doubt only ANV usage. Russell County is directly across the Chattahoochee river from Columbus, GA. It is also only a modern, few minutes drive away from the railroad lines that went from West Point, GA to Montgomery, AL.

With so much AoT manufacturing, depot supplying, and shipping going on out of Columbus, I would have to say AoT usage would be more likely than ANV. IF the canteens were produced in this area. There lies one of the rubs. Where were they manufactured? They seem to be made of an interesting wood that the MoC hasn't been able to nail down. The remakes tend to be made of Cypress or Cherry. If the originals are cypress, I don't think they came from this area. If they are cherry, there's a real good chance they are from around here.

So much about all of this is based on speculation. Actual artifacts and records concerning this are so minute, that I doubt anyone could officially decide or dispute the amount of manufacture, OR where it was primarily used. Common sense would dictate AoT usage, but there don't seem to be very many artifacts to back that up. Not unusual, there aren't a heck of a lot of artifacts period.

The fact is, Gardner pattern canteens exist in much larger numbers than Nuckolls canteens as artifacts. The ADAH in Montgomery has several Gardner patterns as well as tin drum canteens. If artifact presence is one way to establish amout of usage, then I would have to say the Gardner pattern greatly outnumbered the Nuckolls pattern.

[GaReb]

Re: Nuckolls canteens

Thanks a lot. All of your posts have been very helpful.

Pvt. Chris Anderson
5th Geo. Infantry

[Gallinipper]

Re: Nuckolls canteens

The fact is, Gardner pattern canteens exist in much larger numbers than Nuckolls canteens as artifacts. The ADAH in Montgomery has several Gardner patterns as well as tin drum canteens. If artifact presence is one way to establish amout of usage, then I would have to say the Gardner pattern greatly outnumbered the Nuckolls pattern.

I'd certainly have to concur with Ben there. I'd also compare the usage of Nuckolls canteens at Franklin to wearing Dept. of Alabama jackets there, as well: Both are "super-sexy" IMHO, but there would seem to be better (or safer) choices available--from a documentation standpoint-- at least for now anyway. Good luck!

Rich Croxton

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Nuckolls canteens

I too concur with Ben. I'll double check my notes, but I think the canteens of this pattern with provenance all point to usage by troops assigned to CS Departments in the deep South. I am unaware of any ANV or AoT provenance for these items.

Regarding the Nuckolls Dec 1862 patent date, I believe this was for another pattern canteen. I have the patent text at home and I will post the info when I find it.

To amplify one of Ben's comments, there seems to be an evolution among authentic reenactors. First, you just want to get good basic gear. Next, you want the cool "under represented" item to add to your impression. Next, you move onto a completely generic or PEC impression. If I were putting together a Nashville campaign AoT impression and wanted a wood canteen, I would sling on a Gardner and be totally confident I was wearing an item that was in the ranks at Franklin and Nashville. I couldn't wear a Nuckolls with that same confidence.

[Gallinipper]

Re: Nuckolls canteens

I'll double check my notes, but I think the canteens of this pattern with provenance all point to usage by troops assigned to CS Departments in the deep South. I am unaware of any ANV or AoT provenance for these items.

Regarding the Nuckolls Dec 1862 patent date, I believe this was for another pattern canteen. I have the patent text at home and I will post the info when I find it.

John,
My understanding is at least 2 canteens of this type are documented as having been used by soldiers in the ANV. Probably the more "recognized" one appears in the CS EOG volume (p. 209). This is noted as having been carried by a member of the 47th NCT, a unit which served with the ANV. Another appears on the page facing the Baton Rouge example that was previously described, in Sylvia & O'Donnell's book. It was apparently carried by a member of the 4th Ga Infantry, which I believe was also an ANV unit.

I was not aware Nuckolls had another patent for canteens. Lord only lists his name/patent once in that particular reference. However, this is almost certainly an incomplete list, and I'd definitely be interested in seeing any other patent info that you might be able to share. Thanks!

Rich Croxton

[Possum Skinner]

Re: Nuckolls canteens

If I am not mistaken, Nuckolls also patented a filter type canteen similar to the French one.

I have done some looking over Patent records online. There are several Nuckolls' from Russell County, AL with Patents. Many in the 1880's-1890's. One is for a plow shield.

This must have been a patenting/inventing family. There are still some Nuckolls in the Russell County, AL/ Muscogee County, GA area. Probably descendants. Maybe we should try and make contact? Who knows. Somebody might have ggg grandpa's sketchbook or records.

[Gallinipper]

Re: Nuckolls canteens

If I am not mistaken, Nuckolls also patented a filter type canteen similar to the French one.

Gents,
Been doing some more digging here and that is correct. There was indeed a filter canteen patented by Nuckolls, which was essentially a copy of the French model. It is listed as CS Patent #129-- which is actually the same "Army Canteen" patent referred to in Lord's. At one time Pat Brown offered nice repros of this canteen and I had completely forgotten about it. According to his catalog, that canteen is also the one pictured in the CS EOG (p. 210), carried by a soldier of the 55th VA Inf.

As there appears to be no listing of another patent for a Nuckolls canteen in Lord's, I suppose it's back to square one now for dating the wooden version.... My apologies for muddying the water a tad!

Rich Croxton

[roundshot]

Re: Nuckolls canteens

I had a beautiful Nuckolls pattern wooden canteen years ago I wore at 125th Gettysburg. It did not stand up well in the field. The wire loops soon came out and after that nothing could make them stay seated in the wood, not even superglue. The Gardner's are much more durable, and hold more water.

Bob Williams
Reilly's NC Btty

[tomhopkins4279]

Re: Nuckolls canteens

From the Columbus Museum....

"The canteen's paper label, most likely written in the late 19th century, states, "This canteen was made by Thornton Nuckolls and used during the Civil War. Mr. Nuckolls had a shop on his farm where he supplied the soldiers with these canteens." Lest skeptical researchers be tempted to think this was an early example of counterfeiting historical souvenirs, a check of the National Archives reveals a November 1863 invoice written by James Thornton Nuckolls for the sale of 300 canteens and cotton webbing for slings to the arsenal in Columbus.

It seems likely that J.T. Nuckolls invented and produced these canteens in collaboration with his father Nathaniel Nuckolls. The elder Nuckolls was one of the early purchasers of Muscogee (Creek) lands in Russell County, Alabama, just across the Chattahoochee River from Columbus. He established saw and grist mills, using industrial skills that would soon be in demand. In 1909, his daughter Elizabeth Nuckolls Long Ware wrote this memory of her family's work during the war years:

"Father had a machine workshop at his mills called "Variety Works," where he made looms, spinning wheels, tubs, churns, bread trays or any other household implement, water buckets, and canteens to send to the army. My mother and sisters had small looms, on which they wove the strappings for the canteens and knapsacks, and for bridle reins and saddle girths. All of the strapping was woven of the very best double and twisted cotton thread, indeed we were making a business of making everything that we could. Women, men too old for soldiers, boys too young, all did what they could….Father had put his youngest son, JT Nuckolls, and my oldest son, Thomas J. Long, in this machine shop, doing what was called government work. He got orders from the war commissary department at Columbus for army supplies of such as these things mentioned."

Nathaniel Nuckolls submitted a Confederate patent application in 1862 for an "Army Canteen," described in Columbus' Weekly Sun as "a new style of Wood Canteen…neat and…superior to any others as it has but one joint, thus saving it from liability to leaks. It seems to us that Nuckolls' canteen would prove more serviceable and give more satisfaction than anything which has yet been gotten up." This style, which is now quite rare, involves two hollow wooden plates, joined by three copper dowel pins that also attach the three tin strap loops. - See more at: http://columbusmuseum.pastperfectonl....VcIKg0nk.dpuf

[Yellowhammer Rebel]

Re: Nuckolls canteens

Good stuff!!

[teufelhund]

Re: Nuckolls canteens

Interesting to note the differences between the Nuckolls canteen in the link vs the one at the MOC(which most repros are based off of). I wonder if the one at the MOC is just a variant made by JT Nuckolls?