Austrian Lorenz Repop

[Jimmayo]

Re: Austrian Lorenz Repop

The barrel on the prototype measures .789 at the end of the muzzle and .812 at the end of the front band, behind the sight. Is this somewhat close to the originals??

Mine measures 0.774 or 0.775 inch barrel diameter measured with the instrument up against the front band.

Midway between the end of the barrel and the front sight it measures 0.755 or 0.756 inch.

I took several measurments and they came out to be either of the two numbers given. I didn't like taking the measurement at the muzzle because it may have been deformed slightly through the years.


In any case, we hope soon to have the bayonet available, (as soon as we can get our hands on an original to copy).

Originals can be bought for around $125. Contact Horse Soldier of Gettysburg.


Is it that important to fit an original bayonet on a repro gun ? How many reenactors have original bayonets to fit on the repro anyway?

Depends on quality of repros. Quite a few people use original M42 bayonets.

Can anyone there give me the exact measurement between the lower end of the rammer tube of the front band and the front of the middle band? It would be most appreciated.

From lower end of tube to front of middle band is 2 inches.

From lower end of tube to front of rear band is 16.25 inches. Both were measured using a tape measure.

Hope this helps. Also shown is a dug version of the ramrod with the brass band intact.

[FlatLandFed]

Re: Austrian Lorenz Repop

Greetings,

"Is it that important to fit an original bayonet on a repro gun ? How many reenactors have original bayonets to fit on the repro anyway? I had to ask this question. I hope I don't offend anyone, but it has me stumped."

Original U.S. bayonet for my repro .69 Springfield and original British bayonet for my repro .577 Enfield have served me well in the field, thank you.

Yes -- the ability to fix an original bayonet on a long arm would be an important consideration for me.

Best of luck in your endeavor.
Paul Hadley
Lincoln, Neb.

[Rebbeh]

Re: Austrian Lorenz Repop

Today, Monday, at about 3:30pm I sent Blair an email telling him about how many of my pards use original bayonets and whatnot. I own 2 muskets ('42 Springfield and '53 Enfield) and only use original bayonets for both. I've seen too many "round" bayonets after someone takes a hit. Plus, for the most part, originals and repops are about the same price. I'd gladly throw down 25-30 extra bucks for an original.

Just my opinion. But I prefer to use original bayonets simply because they are more well made

[James the Haggard Ranger]

Re: Austrian Lorenz Repop

Chuck and I have been comparing the picture of the Loylist Arms prototype Austrian Lorenz to our original on display in the museum. They have a long way to go for it to be a Lorenz.

Their prototype appears to be a retooled reproduction Italian 1863 Springfield Rifled Musket made to resemble a Lorenz. Compare Loylist Arms images to the 1863 Springfield and you will notice immediately the hammer is a '63, lock plate is a '63, stock is a '63, ramrod is a '63, etc.

If they have retooled a '63 Springfield why not leave it .58cal?

Their is a good photo of a Lorenz in the Union Echos of Glory book which does not match their prototype, however the prototype does looks more similar to the original 1863 Springfield in the same book.

I hope this observation can be useful.

Thanks,

James Wooten, Interpretive Ranger
Pickett's Mill Battlefield state Historic site

[ACo.]

Re: Austrian Lorenz Repop

Chuck and I have been comparing the picture of the Loylist Arms prototype Austrian Lorenz to our original on display in the museum. They have a long way to go for it to be a Lorenz.

Their prototype appears to be a retooled reproduction Italian 1863 Springfield Rifled Musket made to resemble a Lorenz. Compare Loylist Arms images to the 1863 Springfield and you will notice immediately the hammer is a '63, lock plate is a '63, stock is a '63, ramrod is a '63, etc.

If they have retooled a '63 Springfield why not leave it .58cal?

Their is a good photo of a Lorenz in the Union Echos of Glory book which does not match their prototype, however the prototype does looks more similar to the original 1863 Springfield in the same book.

I hope this observation can be useful.

Thanks,

James Wooten, Interpretive Ranger
Pickett's Mill Battlefield state Historic site

Actually it is not useful since you are comparing reproduction to reproduction. Agreed, there are similarities to the ’63 but not to the degree that you state. Someone with little knowledge about military firearms of the era would not notice the differences either. We don't get an accurate view of things looking at photographs on a computer, even when we have an original in hand as you do? Please don't take offense but I do not see the same similarities that you see and in 30 years of handling original firearms I think (?) I have a pretty good idea of the subtleties in what I am looking at. The differences between the Lorenz reproduction and the '63 are obvious, especially in the hammer and lock plate - they are completely different from the ’63 whether it be original or reproduction. Give them a chance and maybe they will satisfy you? My chief problem with it at this point is the horrible brass tipped ramrod which, incidentally, is nothing like a '63 ramrod - if you stretch your imagination it can be said to be similar to the M1855 - 61 ramrod but really isn’t that either. Sorry, I do not want to offend, maybe you should look closer?

[Jim Chochole]

Loyalist Arms 1854 Lorenz Is here!

I received my new Loyalist Arms prototype 1854 Lorenz this week. I am attaching a bunch of close-ups and details of this production arm. It is very light at about 7-8lbs and has a nice heft.

1. The front sight has been modified from a square to the rounded off-center one.
2. The bands aren't perfect and the middle one does not have the flar along the bottom
3. The hammer nose is a tad longer than on the originals- but it completely covers the cone- and is safer for flying cap chards.

Other than the aforementioned items, see for yourself and let's chat this new piece up for all folks who have an interest.

**If folks need more or different pics- please let me know.

Cheers,
Jim Chochole

[1stMaine]

Re: Loyalist Arms 1854 Lorenz Is here!

Comrade,

3 Questions for you:

1.) What calibre is the reproduction offered in?

2.) Is a bayonet available?

3.) What sort of markings are there and where are they located?

Respects,

[trippcor]

Re: Loyalist Arms 1854 Lorenz Is here!

Jim,
I know you own a large number of orginal weapons. I would be interested in seeing a side by side comparison with an original. Hopefully including some measurements and pictures.

[Lone Guard]

Re: Loyalist Arms 1854 Lorenz Is here!

When I first saw this on then Loyalist website, I immediately took out my EOG to compare it.

Besides the calibre being off, I think the major differences I remember were the ramrod bell being different, as well as the screw locations on the lockplate.

At least someone is making an effort to put on out there, even if it is a off a few marks.

[Dignann]

Re: Loyalist Arms 1854 Lorenz Is here!

1.) What calibre is the reproduction offered in?
2.) Is a bayonet available?
3.) What sort of markings are there and where are they located?

Austrian Lorenz Repop

Eric

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Loyalist Arms 1854 Lorenz Is here!

A number of relic vendors are currently carrying original Lorenz muskets, including an A-C Approved Vendor who has posted a number of detailed pics. :wink_smil

Judge for yourself.

I see (in random order):
- Wrist longer on repro than original, resulting in misshapen cheek piece.
- Misshapen left side panel.
- relative distance between front and mid band longer on the repro.
- Shape differences in the plate on the left panel (counter to the lock).
- Subtle difference in hammer shape.

Some of these items are common to almost every repro musket I've seen, such as the side panel shapes.

[KyCavalier]

Re: Loyalist Arms 1854 Lorenz Is here!

:cry_smile When I was a senior in H.S. a good friend of mine had an original with bayonet...I had him talked into $200. But, his dad had the last word. :baring_te If I run into him I'll ask what happened to it.

Tony Downs
6th Ky Cav

[Jim Chochole]

Re: Loyalist Arms 1854 Lorenz Is here!

I have contacted Loyalist about the bayonet- I know they are in the works, but I will seek an exact time of availability.

1. the caliber is about .62- a standard (incorrect) triangular Enfield bayonet
fits well.
2. the rammer swell is all brass, but they are being corrected as we speak- I
was told by Blair Higgins.
3. only markings on the Lorenz is "858" for 1858 on the lockplate centered

Thanks and hope this helps!
Jim Chochole

**working on putting an original side-by-side with it.

[firstexas]

Re: Loyalist Arms 1854 Lorenz Is here!

Pards,

There are some good pictures of an original Lorenz rifle on Tim Price's site:

http://www.collegehillarsenal.com/shop/product.php?productid=16206&cat=261&page=1

FYI, Bill.

[Minieball577]

Re: Loyalist Arms 1854 Lorenz Is here!

I have attached some measurments that you can use to compare the reproduction with an original. These specs are what members of the N-SSA use to build reproduction forearms, and are drawn from an original specimen.

Barrel, band, and sight measurments are made from the barrel/tang intersection line. Measurments are from this reference point to the first verticle surface on the part being measured.

Other measurements are taken from the butt plat to the muzzle, from the tigger on half cock to the butt plate, and from the butt plate to the stock tip.