Is being a bad soldier sometimes a good impression?

[AZReenactor]

There is no regulation that forbids the sprouting of wings and flying about the parade ground. This is because nobody ever did that.
There is a regulating that directs the men to keep their coats buttoned because they were leaving them open (human nature being what it is.)
If the troops NEVER violated the Regs, why do we have volumes of courts-martial records that say otherwise?
The question that might be asked is "Is being a bad soldier sometimes a good impression?"

Glen posted this over in the "Button That Top Button!" Arrggh! thread and I thought it a very good question to spin off into a new thread.

The observation that the rules existed because there was a need for them to prevent and demand certain behaviors is most insightful. There are numerous examples of the regulations being neglected, ignored, or disregarded by officers and men alike. In both volunteer and regular army units men frequently chose actions that were contrary to good order and discipline. Whether it is sneaking alcohol into camp, stealing a few turnips on the march, faking illness at surgeons call, cursing in the presence of officers, failing to properly maintain uniforms or equipment properly, throwing away issued items because of weight, shirking duty, or skulking away during battle the soldiers of the Civil War frequently chose to act in their own interests. They weren't martinets waiting to have their strings pulled.

My question to this forum is this, how does the human tendency towards being selfish, lazy, independent, mischevieous, clever, efficient, etc. in manners contrary to the "official regulations and orders" play out into your reenacting? In what ways do you incorporate being a bad soldier into your authentic impression?

[Lone Guard]

Re: Is being a bad soldier sometimes a good impression?

I swear infront of the Sgt., but you already knew that.

[IowaYank]

Re: Is being a bad soldier sometimes a good impression?

Pogue, Where are you on this one?? This topic seems to be right up your alley.Pogue has perfected this impression that you speak of. Dan Chmelar

[Malingerer]

Re: Is being a bad soldier sometimes a good impression?

I shirk and malinger constantly which is really just a carryover of my real-life personality. It comes in handy when portraying a late-war draftee who couldn't find a substitute.

[Hargis, G. 5 A-1]

Re: Is being a bad soldier sometimes a good impression?

Before inspections I've "soaped over"a rust-spoted musket now and again so as to fend off inspecting officers' ire. (Though, more often than not, sergeants voiced their opinions on the matter later — once the powers-that-be were out of earshot — NCO DO want to keep THEIR reputations untarnished, after all)

[AZReenactor]

Re: Is being a bad soldier sometimes a good impression?

Having started this discussion I might as well contribute my experience as well. (Although I am probably giving away too much to those in leadership over me.) I generally portray a soldier with enough time in the service to know how to play the game. I try to portray a very human soldier and am often a very good soldier when I'm being observed by anyone in authority over me but often less so when I can get away with it. I have shirked, slept, stolen liquor, played pranks, gotten "lost" on marches, borrowed eggs, found other "duties" during engagements, been "deaf" to orders and bugle calls, been vulgar around officers, cursed sergeants, fought, gambled, been out of uniform, and a few other infractions that are certainly punishable under the code of Military Justice. I've also rifled through knapsacks, blackmailed NCOs, "tricked" and mislead officers, redirected blame to others, intimidated comrades, traded dirty musket for clean, and cheated at cards. It all depends on the situation, but generally I try to get away with whatever I can manage to while in 1st person.

I trust my reenacting comrades and leaders and expect to be disciplined in a period fashion by officer and NCO when caught. There are certain punishments I don't care to experience (at least not more than once) and, just like a soldier back then would have, I am cautious about the boundaries I push or cross. When being a shirker, etc. it is crucial, especially when participating in 1st person, to expect to be reprimanded and punished in an authentic manner and to be willing to submit to such. Verbal abuse, extra duty, marking time, plackarding, digging holes, reduced rations, extra drill, bucking and gagging, reduction in rank, and confinement, have been some of the results I experienced in the past of my bad behavior.

[Michael Comer]

Re: Is being a bad soldier sometimes a good impression?

For the benefit of any of those under whose command I may serve in the future: I am a model soldier who would never do any of the things these other miscreants are admitting to. You can trust me.

[Lone Guard]

Re: Is being a bad soldier sometimes a good impression?

Having started this discussion I might as well contribute my experience as well. (Although I am probably giving away too much to those in leadership over me.) I generally portray a soldier with enough time in the service to know how to play the game. I try to portray a very human soldier and am often a very good soldier when I'm being observed by anyone in authority over me but often less so when I can get away with it. I have shirked, slept, stolen liquor, played pranks, gotten "lost" on marches, borrowed eggs, found other "duties" during engagements, been "deaf" to orders and bugle calls, been vulgar around officers, cursed sergeants, fought, gambled, been out of uniform, and a few other infractions that are certainly punishable under the code of Military Justice. I've also rifled through knapsacks, blackmailed NCOs, "tricked" and mislead officers, redirected blame to others, intimidated comrades, traded dirty musket for clean, and cheated at cards. It all depends on the situation, but generally I try to get away with whatever I can manage to while in 1st person.

I trust my reenacting comrades and leaders and expect to be disciplined in a period fashion by officer and NCO when caught. There are certain punishments I don't care to experience (at least not more than once) and, just like a soldier back then would have, I am cautious about the boundaries I push or cross. When being a shirker, etc. it is crucial, especially when participating in 1st person, to expect to be reprimanded and punished in an authentic manner and to be willing to submit to such. Verbal abuse, extra duty, marking time, plackarding, digging holes, reduced rations, extra drill, bucking and gagging, reduction in rank, and confinement, have been some of the results I experienced in the past of my bad behavior.

Yeah? You missed drinking other person's lemonade and tea, and the Sargeant was right there.

In addition to swearing infront of officers; I've run from battles a couples times, simply told a commanding officer "no", dumped trash on a civilian's property, and in one instance grabbed a Sargeant by the collar (back when I was still a streamer).

[AzTrooper]

Re: Is being a bad soldier sometimes a good impression?

I can personally attest to the fact that the individual that started this thread and another unidentified individual who if memory serves me correctly has been known to smoke a cigar or two when he can " find" one..... has been known to wander off from camp and raid the camps of others (at times in a less than sober state) and steal their liquor, but I never reported it to an officer, besides said individual is sewing a shirt for me and it wouldnt do for him to get drummed out of the service :)
Respectfully,
John Rogers

[Pvt Peck]

Re: Is being a bad soldier sometimes a good impression?

Some many years ago while portraying 1 Sgt Greenleaf of the 2nd California Infantry at a garrison event at Ft Tejon Ca. I did cause to be arrested one Cpl Malis for attacking another Cpl while extremly drunk with a hammer. We convined a court with all the officers present, had the whole company look on as Cpl Malis (who was stone cold sober & really did not have any idea what the hell we were on about) was found guilty and sentenced to spend the night in the very cold guard house rather than the nice warm barracks. Now Malis was good enough to end up playing along but was non to happy about things as we really did blind side him with this. So you see, being a "good" soldier does not always bring plaudits your way so you might as well shirk, malinger, drink, fight, gamble and steal when you can!

I have been present in a company (Mudsills years ago) when almost every man had a flask or bottle of alcohol in his knapsack at Sunday inspection, needless to say the inspecting officer was "testing" every bottle, and the whole company was berated for their bad habits. The knapsacks of some men were filled with various "stolen" items as well such as candlesticks, household silver etc.... I have been responsible for the stealing of good things from the table of an officers mess, which has always been duly shared with my pards.

I have convinced a Sgt to try a piece of "mint cake" that was actually a cake of soap, lucky for me I was battalion Adj at the time so he could not do anything to me.

I find if you just let your imagination wander to what a bored soldier would do, you can be a very very bad soldier, and if you are creative enough you can usually get away with it......

Ted "you do not want me in your company"Parrott

[Fatback and Beans]

Re: Is being a bad soldier sometimes a good impression?

In what ways do you incorporate being a bad soldier into your authentic impression?

However I am able. I've seen way too much supposed Victorian manners affected by too many folks at too many events. The notion that every man was a well mannered gentleman, and that every woman was a prim and proper lady has been perpetuated in some circles and it should die. People are/were people, both well mannered and coarse and everywhere in between, even in Victorian times. Both armies had their share of miserable examples of human beings.

I think The Bard said it best;

"... there is no king, be his cause never so spotless, if it come to the arbitrement of swords, can try it out with all unspotted soldiers..."
King Henry V - Henry V, Act IV, Scene I

[Old Reb]

Re: Is being a bad soldier sometimes a good impression?

Often I portray a substitue with doubtful loyalities to any cause other than keeping myself alive. I was a veteran of the Texas Revolution and served with John Hayes in Mexico durning the Mexican War and fought good and bad Indians before and after that war. I think I know more than the officers and NCO's and freely express that opinion, but since most of them are related to me, I am only a bit obnoxious and my rants are overlooked because of my age and past experiences. I am good to have around when the fighting starts, but often shirk camp duties. I am good at starting a fire. I tell good tall tales.

[ScottCross]

Re: Is being a bad soldier sometimes a good impression?

With out a doubt, the "Bad Soldier" impression is a good one. Before being promoted to corporal in the Mudsills in 1983, I was the "Company Beat". I've done everything you could possibly imagine or read about, and then some: steal, shirk, drink, gamble, desert, consort with camp followers, etc., etc. Oh, I almost forgot, I hung my company commander in effigy and hung a sign around the neck that read, "Thus to Tyrants!" (he had punished me for something I actually didn't do!). I've stood on barrels, carried 75 lb logs, listened to the Articles of War, drilled with a broom with a knapsack full of bricks, been bucked and gagged, and more. If you play the part, expect good NCOs and officers to apply propper punishment. I suppose the pinacle of my 'Bad Soldiering" days came when as a sergeant I got drunk, passed out in the civilian camp, got a bottle of perfume dumped on me, and missed the Sunday morning company formation. When the Western Battalion formed an hour later, the Colonel called me to the front and center, had two corporals flank me, broke me to the ranks, and had the corporals cut off my chevrons in front of the whole regiment. I heard members of other companies remark that that was one of the most authentic things they had ever seen. Then I was elected lieutenant and all my vices became legal. You bet, the bad soldier is authentic, look at the court martial reports!

[Wounded_Zouave]

Re: Is being a bad soldier sometimes a good impression?

Then I was elected lieutenant and all my vices became legal.

ROFLMAO!!! :shades_sm

[One is the Left!]

Re: Is being a bad soldier sometimes a good impression?

With out a doubt, the "Bad Soldier" impression is a good one. Before being promoted to corporal in the Mudsills in 1983, I was the "Company Beat". I've done everything you could possibly imagine or read about, and then some: steal, shirk, drink, gamble, desert, consort with camp followers, etc., etc. Oh, I almost forgot, I hung my company commander in effigy and hung a sign around the neck that read, "Thus to Tyrants!" (he had punished me for something I actually didn't do!). I've stood on barrels, carried 75 lb logs, listened to the Articles of War, drilled with a broom with a knapsack full of bricks, been bucked and gagged, and more. If you play the part, expect good NCOs and officers to apply propper punishment. I suppose the pinacle of my 'Bad Soldiering" days came when as a sergeant I got drunk, passed out in the civilian camp, got a bottle of perfume dumped on me, and missed the Sunday morning company formation. When the Western Battalion formed an hour later, the Colonel called me to the front and center, had two corporals flank me, broke me to the ranks, and had the corporals cut off my chevrons in front of the whole regiment. I heard members of other companies remark that that was one of the most authentic things they had ever seen. Then I was elected lieutenant and all my vices became legal. You bet, the bad soldier is authentic, look at the court martial reports!

This is actually one of the things I love about a good first person impression. I've been known to dip into correct profanity every now and again, but I have yet to be fined for it. I'm just waiting for the day when some Captian hears me call the Leutenant a "son of a bitch" for making me stand picket and responds properly.


Eugene Yeo