Gourds as canteens

[Old Reb]

I have seen references to gourds being used to carry water when canteens were unavailable. I would think that this was mostly early war, but am not certain. Also, how were the gourds carried? Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

[KarinTimour]

My absolute favorite way to carry water at events

Dear Tom:

I've got a gourd that I use to carry water at events -- mind you I'm a civilian, but I know they used gourds before and after the war, and I suspect that those soldiers who used them had done so as civilians.

The type of gourd you want is called a "bottle gourd" and it resembles what I've heard called "Martin gourd". Martin gourds, or at least the ones that I've seen have a large bulbous bottom, and taper towards the top, so you can hollow out the bottom part and put a hole in it and hang it in a tree to attract Purple Martins. My bottle gourd has a definate "hour glass shape" and holds a little over a quart of water. The upper portion holds about half a cup, the rest of it in the bottom section.

I was given mine as a gift when I was in Louisiana, so I got it when it had been dried, hollowed out and even had a cork in it. I tied a strip of homespun around it so that I could wear it around my shoulder and I've never looked back. Mine was treated with beeswax, which tends to loosen up and come free -- every so often I get a mouthful of wax clumps along with the water.

I don't know much about gourds, and this one is holding up very well after about 5 years of use, but I know that sooner or later it's going to bite the dust, so I've been gathering information about them.

Some have said that you need to let it dry on the vine in the fall -- don't know if this is true or not. I've also heard that one of the ways of loosening up the gourd innards in the bottom "section" of the hourglass is to jury rig a tube of some sort on the end of a Dremel and attach a piece of weed whipping string. Sounds good, but I've never tried it. Might be the answer to cleaning out gourds, or just something someone thought up to see if I'd believe them..... Once you get the innards out of the gourd, the jury seems to be divided on whether to warm up some beeswax and swish it down in there to seal it. Mine was and it's served me well.

If you do find someone who sells them, or if others know where I could get a replacement, I'm interested in all leads.

I can't stress enough how much I really bless the friend who gave me this -- it's one of my most favorite and useful reenacting tools.

Sincerely,
Karin Timour
Domestic Arts and Honorable Trades Society
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[tmdreb]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Karin,

Try Ebay for gourds. A search will bring up a good quantity of gourds that are already dried and ready for some final finishing for use as a canteen. They even have "canteen gourds" that really look a lot like a Federal smoothside tin canteen. Good news is, they sell for very cheap. If you wanted, you could set up a whole company with them for the price of one good tin canteen. It looks like you'd need to cut off the stem, cut a whole for a cork, and line it with beeswax before use. Personally, I'd rather just deal with the dried product than wait almost two years to let some dry before they can be used.

[Alamo Guard]

Re: Gourds as canteens

[QUOTE=tmdreb]Karin,
Just buy two gourds, cut the side off one and make the "camp dipper" for your water. They were used alot for water barrels and "ollas", clay water containers here in the southwest.

[KarinTimour]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Dear Tom, Phil and Dusty:

I scoped out the gourds on Ebay and I think you're totally right, this is the way to get something to start working on. While a dipper is a nice idea, I'm not often near open water sources where I could use it. I have learned that I must have a water source with me all the time, or I get caught up in whatever I'm doing and forget to drink enough water. Given the several layers of clothing I'm wearing, it's a set up for heat stroke. The first year of my reenacting, at every event they carted at least one or two women off in ambulances with heat stroke because they didn't drink enough water. I started to think that it was a normal part of civilian reenacting. It was a very salutory lesson -- the one event where I hadn't thought through an appropriate water container I definately didn't drink enough and got extremely dehydrated.

But I'll keep the gourd dipper idea in mind if there is an event upcoming where we have to furnish a kitchen, as there are some very interesting looking gourds on those ebay listings.

Sincerely,
Karin Timour
Domestic Arts and Honorable Trades Society
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[Michael Comer]

Re: Gourds as canteens

This discussion has been interesting from the civilian point of view. I have also seen gourds used as water containers and they are fine indeed.

However, the original question regarded military use I believe and I am also curious as to whether there is documentation of such use. I would not be surprised to see early militia or units like the Missouri State Guard having individuals equipped with gourd canteens but is there evidence of that being so or any other use of such things later in the war?

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Tom,

In your post, you state, "I have seen references to gourds being used to carry water when canteens were unavailable."

We had a lengthy discussion on this last year and nobody was able to come up with any documentation for the military use of "gourd canteens" so I'd be very interested to hear what references to said use you have found.

Thanks,

[Old Reb]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Mr. Stillwagon,
By Grand Daddy called it spliting hairs, but I will refer to it as semantics which is the meaning and changes of meaning pertaining to words. The word I used was "references" which means to mention, or to direct attention or thought, or to make an allusion, which is a casual mention of an incident either directly or by implication. I did not use the word documentation in my post. I would not have posted the question if I had had documentation, for there would have been no need for the knowledge since it was already at hand. As for the lengthy discussion made previously on this forum, I did not see that discussion and since the former information is no longer available, I had no knowledge that the discussion had been covered. The reference to gourds being used by Civil War soldiers was made in response to reading the guidelines for an event being posted on
the events forum. I certainly would like documentation concerning gourds being used. Since a reference can have many meanings and not to be confused with documentation, I was only asking a simple question and looking for help. I will certainly be more careful with my word choice when using this forum in the future. I will also do the best I can to see if I can find some documentation concerning the use of gourds to carry water by Civil
War soldiers. Thank you Mr. Stillwagon for the pendantic response to my humble post.

[tarwater_mess]

Re: Gourds as canteens

I have seen references to gourds being used to carry water when canteens were unavailable.

"Seen" implies documentation.

[Old Reb]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Seen implies I saw reference to it. As previously stated, the use of a gourd in place of a canteen was listed under the guidelines for an event in the event forum. Saying I have seen is the way many of us folks down in the deep South say things. I apologize for misleading anyone or getting their hopes up that I somehow had knowledge and documentation that they do not have. I am certain that if they had such documentation, they would have kindly answered my question in a civil manner and without implied insult. Now, back to the original question: I have seen listed under some guidelines that gourds are acceptable as a substitue for canteens. Does anyone know or have documentation to this reference. Humbly, I ask.

[M_Kupsch]

Re: Gourds as canteens

This discussion also found it's way a few years back on the 1st Battalion Army Of the Trans-Mississippi Battalion's Forum. John Schwartz came up with primary source references documenting the use of gourd canteens by the military. I take the liberty of bringing his post to this discussion.
************************************************** ******
John Schwarz
My gourd is bigger than your gourd
Fri Nov 1 16:59:52 2002
205.188.209.109

Boys,

I haven't kept up with the "Authentic Campaigner" website in months due to a lack of time, but I read John Piller's transplant with interest. I've never researched the subject of gourd canteens, but five or six years ago, I purchased a large gourd canteen from my pard, Chris Fischer, because of an account that I had read about one of the Texas cavalry units I study using one.

Private A. L. Nelms wrote to his wife from Fort McCulloch, Choctaw Nation (modern southeastern Oklahoma) on July 19, 1862 that, "I got a Spanish goard yesterday that wil hold over a half a galon of water already cleaned for $1...."

Nelms was in Company E, 34th Texas Cavalry from Fannin County, Texas--which is northeast of Dallas on the Red River border with Oklahoma. The entire regiment was raised from the north-central counties of Texas--soldidly Upper South, culturally--and so there is no reason to suspect that this practice was peculier to Texas because of the state's Hispanic influence or something. Indeed, Fannin County and all of the counties from which the 34th was raised were not really populated in large part until the decade before the Civil War. The settlers came mostly (like the Nelms) from Tennesse, Kentucky, and Missouri--and Virginia and North Carolina before that.

I am not going to pretend to enter this argument, because I don't care, but I would suggest that if one were truly interested in the subject, take the cultural approach and look at the Upper South and its material culture. I am sure you will find sufficient documentation for the gourd's use in the reenactment hobby for the purposes you suggested (i.e. civilian use and occasionally on a civilian volunteer), but in this respect, no one is in disagreement with Stillwagon (and I agree with his case for the most part--reenactors need to do more specific research, generally).

Fischer had the goard that I purchased from him (big damn goard) because he likewise found documentation for a Texas regiment that he likes carrying them (he is big on the 9th Texas Cavalry from the Fort Worth area, among others; that is the regiment to which it is attributed to, I believe). I'll see if he can contribute another example, if you wish. My account was published: Robert S. Weddle, editor, PLOW HORSE CAVALRY: THE CANEY CREEK BOYS OF THE THIRTY-FOURTH TEXAS (Austin: Madrona Press, 1974), 38. (This is a collection of primary sources from the Nelms family--members of the 34th TX Cav as well as material from the home front--edited and annotated by a descendent....
************************************************** *****
Take it for what's it worth boys, but if you want to tell Pvt. A. L. Nelms that he didn't have a gourd canteen because his letter to his wife isn't enough to document his using it while a soldier during the Civil War, then be my guest.

[Old Reb]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Thank you Michael for that documentation.

[M_Kupsch]

Re: Gourds as canteens

My pleasure sir. I believe the event guidelines you make reference pertain to the Living History we are sponsoring at Wilson's Creek. If you have questions regarding this event, please feel free to e-mail them to me at the e-mail address included in my signature.

[tmdreb]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Michael,

Thanks for your post. I had completely forgotten about that discussion myself. It sure is refreshing to see an actual answer to a question, rather than just a continued semantical debate about the wording of the question itself.

[58 lorenz]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Just a thought on gourds: The seeds are widely available from seed companies,and they are easily grown just about anywhere. They grow as a climbing vine,and in the fall,they are fairly dry and hard. You pick them and set them aside to dry for a while more.My wife is from Korea,and she used them for water bottles and dippers when she grew up way back in the hills.

Doug Price