Gourds as canteens

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Tom,

"Pedantic," is commonly defined as "Characterized by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for book learning and formal rules: a pedantic attention to details."

By that definition, I think that is an unfair characterization of my post.

That said, it is my job as moderator to keep the discussion on track as much as possible and enforce a modicum of proper historical process. In your post, you said you had seen references. My post merely asked you to provide those "references" to our membership.

Many thanks Mike for providing John's excellent post. Providing documentation is really the only way we can answer many of these questions.

[M_Kupsch]

Re: Gourds as canteens

I contacted Nic Clark and Don Smith (of TMD fame) to see if they had any references to the military use of gourd canteens. Submitted for your examination is Nic’s response:

“The John A. Logan museum in Murphresborh (sic), IL has John A. Logan's gourd canteen that he used during the Mexican War. Sure, it's not CW, but it's a gourd canteen being used in U.S. Military service. Then, there is an actual photograph of a Texan holding a gourd canteen. You can find this image in the book Portraits of Conflict: Texas in the Civil War on p. 34. The soldier's name is Williamson Milburn, 3rd Texas Cav., Co. K. This image was done of Mr. Milburn during the War.”

Unfortunately, I don’t have the book available so that I could scan the picture and attach it to this post, but at least we can be sure that, indeed, not only is there written documentation attesting gourd canteen usage by the military during the Civil War, but we have empirical evidence as well. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

[Radical Unionist]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Lets slow down here Mr. Yearby, I think your gettin a little too defensive. I take it Mr. Stillwagon was asking a fair question. I first thought you had some sort of doc. and were looking for supporting info, fair for us to think thats what you meant. I don't think anyone was picking on you cept maybe Mr. Mason. I've seen this sort of trash talk digress real poor in the real world, but at least a feller can stand there and back it up. Having it happen in the online world is kinda pathetic and pointless. I say we should wait to take offense untill a feller comes right out and says boo.

By the way I have never seen anything on gourds in the CW. Although I've heard plenty on them in Mex Am war. Maybe its a regional thing, did folks grow them much in Virginia and the mid-west?

For cleaning the insides out I've heard sand and pebbles shook up inside works good.

Jeff Boorom
Wide Awake and Pissed

[Old Reb]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Jeff, I slowed down a long time ago, and all is smoothed over between me and Mr. Stillwagon. As for no Civil War soldier using a gourd for a canteen, please read Mr. Kupsch's post. I did not take offense, and if I did, it was a momentary thing. Thanks for the info on cleaning a gourd. I will try what you suggest.

[Alamo Guard]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Here in south Texas gourds were grown alot and used alot. After they were harvested they were hung in the rafters for a year to dry. Small stones and pebbles were placed inside them and the children would roll them over in their hands to remove the "innards".
They were cut into bottles, dippers and cups etcc.. They were used as storage containers for small portions of dry goods. With advancement of glass and clay products, and better methods of shpments to folks to receive these products the gourds slowly became the birdhouses and table center pieces we see today.
I know there were other types of civilian canteens available. I have found whats called a miners canteen. Its a two quart copper with screw on zinc top. Its flat on the bottom so it could be set on the ground and round at the top,
Another widely used item for carrying water here in south Texas was both the animal skin "Bota" bag in various sizes, and the Lipan Apache way, using the intestines of a large animal and tying off the ends.
However I just cant see too many ladies using these at the next reenactment, as they were used mostly by the very poor hispanic community. If there is ever a reenactment for the 8th Texas Infantry though, what a sight they would be?

[Eric Burke]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Keith Baty (if he ever resurfaces) made a gourd canteen for his MSG impression a few years back, he might be able to add some insight.

[John of the Skulkers Mess]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Keith Baty (if he ever resurfaces) made a gourd canteen for his MSG impression a few years back, he might be able to add some insight.

I believe Jon Isaacson (sp?) did too.


John Pillers
TSM

[brown]

civilian canteens

Does anyone know of any surviving examples of civilian owned canteens of the 1850's and 60's? While I know that many travellers would have depended on finding water periodically, I was wondering about those who wanted a little back-up. Thanks,
Lindsey Brown

[ley74]

Re: civilian canteens

Nine or ten years ago, while rehabbing one of the pre-1850 houses in Lynchburg, Virginia, two civilian "canteens" were found under the house. The were in fairly good condition, one resembling a larger Gardner and the other a smaller barrel holding about a gallon. Both are in the Lynchburg Museum, at the old Courthouse.

[Garrett Silliman]

Re: civilian canteens

Lindsey,

You may want to contact John Peterson of Ottercreek Tinware

http://mysite.verizon.net/ottertin/octinw1.html

I know he has copied several pre-war militia canteens and may have info on those used by civilians. Good luck, Garrett

[jgr1974]

Re: civilian canteens

If you are a poor southerner or refugee, a gourd would be perfect! There is a type called a "canteen gourd", or "tobacco box gourd". These were named as use for same. They average 6-8 inches in diameter, perfect for a canteen!

drill a hole, clean out the insides, and apply molten beeswax. Then make a sling. Cheap, and functional!

[jacobite8749]

Re: civilian canteens

A period bottle or jug with rope straps works fine for me. If you can get one that has wicker outside, even better. Go for simple rather than fancy.

[Citizen_Soldier]

Re: civilian canteens

Greetings,
In examining genre paintings, drawings, and photographs of agricultural wokers in the 19th century one tends to see a rather large amount of simple stoneware jugs with a handle being used to carry water. Rarely in pre-war store ledgers are canteens or other tin water bottle terminology listed.

I think for a "Typical Everyday Common" citizen's impression a period correct stoneware water bottle would be extremely correct.

Darrek Orwig

[C.R. Henderson]

Re: civilian canteens

Backwoodsman magazine had a really good article a few months back on growing canteen gourds and the person who wrote it cited her great [great?] grandmother as a primary source for info due to her growing them for Confederate troops in Virginia (now west Virginia) as a child. If I can find my copy I'll give you the issue no. so you can get it. Hopefully my wife hasn't "cleaned it up".
Basically, the gourds were grown neck-up and were placed between two staked boards (the boards were vertical and aprox 3' apart) and were allowed to grow in such a fashion until they could be de-seeded and cleaned and fitted with cork and strap. When finished, the gourds had flat sides and a neck that could be fitted with a cork or corn cob to be a serviceable canteen. As I said, I'll try to find the article.

Chris Henderson

[jgr1974]

Re: civilian canteens

Chris,

I remember the article! I am an avid reader of the Backwoodsman. It is a great all around magazine without the political over tones! Unfortuneately, my brother in law likes the magazine to. He lives in the Kentucky hills, and gives the name "hillbilly" true meaning. So I always give my copies to him after I read them. I will add, that growing gourds is a long process! It takes almost a year from planting to drying to get one. The time to find gourds is really over for the year. They are generally found by the box full at local fall festivals and craft shows. They can be bought for just a few bucks. They are on ebay as well, crafters make ornaments, baskets etc from them. They are a little expensive on ebay sometimes though, and one could spend as much for a gourd as a tin canteen!