Gourds as canteens

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Gourd Canteen

Travis, did you see this?

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=337&highlight=civilian+canteens

[1stMo Drummer]

Re: Gourd Canteen

Very sorry,I looked but failed to do a search and missed that...Thanks
Travis Franklin

[Matthew.Rector]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Interesting thoughts about gourd canteens from the Mexican War.

The Twelve Months Volunteer or Journal of a Private in the Tennessee Regiment of Cavalry in the Campaign, in Mexico, 1846-7
By George C. Furber
Cincinnati: U.P. James, 1857
Page 127

Wednesday, September 30th. This was a fine cool morning. We were on the march at an early hour. Captain Porter, being sick, rode in one of the wagons. None of our lieutenants being present, and the orderly sergeant sick, the company marched to-day under the command of the second sergeant. The country passed over was fertile, as before but continually becoming more level, and consequently having but little variety in scenery. –The sun became hot, and water being scarce on the route, our Mexican gourds came in good use. These gourds were much preferable to canteens, for carrying water on the march; for water, in these would remain cool through the day of the hottest sun; while in the tin canteen, it became warm and unpleasant to the taste. This coolness of the gourd, is owing to the continual evaporation going on through the shell. They are convenient in shape and size, being mostly in the shape of the figure 8, and holding from one to two quarts. Round the small part of the gourd the strap is fastened, for suspending it to the side or the pommel of the saddle. Every traveler in this portion of Texas, that we met, had one. Most of our men had thrown away their canteens, and obtained one of these gourds. (Some of the regiments in the service were furnished with India rubber bags, or canteens, to carry water; but they are liable to the same objections as the tin ones, the water in them becoming warm.)

[arthurlee]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Great topic. I have nothing currently to reference the use of gourds in the war, but know from conversations with my G Grandmother that in Georgia they were used both as dippers and canteens or "water jugs". My wife grows several types, Bottle, Dipper and one called an Apple Gourd (Looks like a giant Granny Smith when still green). Cleaning them out is a difficult process. If anyone has a photo of one they have used, please share it as I would like to make a few.

Thanks for the post.

Art Maxwell
Shepherd Texas

[Matthew.Rector]

Re: civilian canteens

While doing some other research, I ran across the attached print from the Library of Congress. The fiddler in the image wears a bottle that has been fitted for traveling. What is in the bottle could be left for endless debate.

http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.pnp/cph.3g06019

Note: The print dates from 1872. Moderators, if you feel that this strays to far from the 1860s discussion, please feel free to delete this post.

TITLE: [Power of music] / chromo. of Duval & Hunter, Philadelphia ; Jas. F. Queen after A. Dircks.
CREATED/PUBLISHED: New York : published by A. & C. Kaufmann, c1872.
CREATOR: Duval & Hunter.
RELATED NAMES: Queen, James, 1824-ca. 1877, artist.
FORMAT: Chromolithographs Color 1870-1880.
REPOSITORY: Library of Congress Prints and Photographs Division Washington, D.C. 20540 USA
DIGITAL ID: (color film copy transparency) cph 3g06019 http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.pnp/cph.3g06019

[Spinster]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Art,

I don't have one of those fancy cameras that allow me to upload images, but gourd water containers are pretty standard issue around my place---with the caveat that this is a purely civilian household.

Warning.......non-period instructions below:

In dealing with the cleanout task, here is one excellent aid. After your gourd is dry, and the hole cut, get a power drill, a bamboo stick, and a length of weedeater string. Pierce the bamboo stick and thread the weedeater string through it. Put the other end of the bamboo stick in the hole where the drill bit normally goes and tighten the chuck. Put the weedwhacker end inside the gourd. WIIIIIIIZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz. Shake gourd contents on floor.
Repeat until clean.
Pour some full strength bleach in there and let it sit awhile to eat out the last of the gourd crud.
Make a strap or string holder. Close hole with cork, stick, or rag.

Make a bunch--this thing will break without much provocation.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Uncle Tom,

The info you want was posted on the FGLHA EZBoard Forum many moons ago, but was no doubt lost in the big EZBoard burp that cost 2 years of database. On one hand, at least you know the AC Forum is not the only place that sends good stuff into vaporland, and on the other hand, most of the folks who posted that type of info are now out of the hobby.

For your amusement, the ORs on CD have a couple of gourd mentions. The first is from the "industry" section of a delightful census of Navajos; however, it has nothing to do with military usage of gourds:

"Further steps have been taken to have them well supplied with pumpkin, musk and water melon, and squash seeds, all of the productions of which are peculiarly suited to the Indian taste and to the cultivation of which even the women and children pay great attention. They are also supplied with a species of gourd seed, which when grown attains extraordinary dimensions, and will supply the want of buckets, pitchers, &c. A considerable number of acres will be devoted to the cultivation of beans and peas, which in this region are very productive, and are regarded as one of the prime articles of subsistence."

Source: O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XLVIII/1 [S# 101]
UNION CORRESPONDENCE, ORDERS, AND RETURNS RELATING TO OPERATIONS IN LOUISIANA AND THE TRANS-MISSISSIPPI STATES AND TERRITORIES, FROM JANUARY 1, 1865, TO MARCH 31, 1865.(*)--#7

The census was accomplished by Captain Francis McCabe, First New Mexico Vol. Cavalry near the end of 1864.

The second quote has nothing to do with the use of gourds as canteens, but, instead as powder horns. This is a gourd use not frequently mentioned in our usual discussions:

"Major Hawes had purchased 1,000 fat hogs and a number of beef cattle, and was making preparations to salt them. My men were badly clad and badly armed, with not a knapsack, haversack, or canteen. They carried their powder in horns, gourds, and bottles. This was our condition when the enemy commenced the advance upon us. Retreat was inevitable, but there was too much public property to be abandoned without an effort to save it."

O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME IV [S# 4] CHAPTER XII.
NOVEMBER 8-9, 1861.--Engagement at Ivy Mountain and skirmish at Piketon, Ky.
No. 3. -- Reports of Col. John S. Williams, C. S. Army. This was from Col. Williams to General Marshall, dated November 13, 1861 from a camp at Pound Gap, VA.

Most of the time the interest in gourd canteens rises with the interest in MSG type events. Considering the amount and quality of equipment and horseflesh left behind by the MSG at Athens, one would think those boys were well heeled, but that may not always be the case.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: civilian canteens

While looking up something else I found this brief reference to a jug for a slave:

"Gave out this evening a blanket, hat & stone jug to Henry & Booker. Henry received a shirt also."-Richard Eppes, June 8, 1858

[Californian]

Re: civilian canteens

You will find a photograph on page 146 of “Silver & Gold Cased Images of the California Gold Rush”. In that photo if you look to the right there’s a canteen hanging of the saddle. From what I can see it is a tin drum with convex sides.

I hope this helps someone.

Joshua Block

[Abrams]

Re: Gourds as canteens

Ahh... Resurrecting an older one.

Thanks for all the info here.

I am going to New Athens soon, and while issue canteens are allowed, I looked for really early war/civilian water carriers. I found a good bottle, but its a little small. After reading this, I decided to try a gourd.

I picked up a nice dried gourd and some hunks of beeswax at a craft market, opened up a nice drinking hole, and cleaned it out well.

My dried gourd is now lined with beeswax and is still holding water with nary a drop or soft spot forming after 12 hours.

If it makes another 12 hours, I'll make a sling for it. :)

[Abrams]

Re: Gourds as canteens

I got a gourd at a local craft fair, carved out a hole with an exacto knife just perfect for a cork I had, finishing it off with a round rasp. I then use a coat hanger and a long skinny pair of forceps to remove all seeds and dried debris inside the gourd. Once all loose flakes and gunk was removed, I rinsed all dust out and warmed it in an oven to speed the drying process. After a couple more days to ensure a dry inside, I warmed the gourd in an oven to prevent the wax from setting up instantly and then I melted about a cigarette pack size piece of beeswax and poured some into the warmed gourd, and swirled it around until the entire inside was coated with at least an 1/8" of wax. I burned my thumb covering the hole while getting the upper bubble coated. I corrected my ignorance with a small leather scrap on subsequent coats, heh.

It held water for 3 days with nary a leak or damp spots on the gourd. I am pleased. Here is a picture of it with the "sling" I made out of hemp rope utilizing a slip knot and sinew to bind the rope. It holds just shy of a quart.

First time trying to upload a pic, we'll see how it goes...

Edit: Yay! I don't know what to do for a "sling" yet, and have found no pointers anywhere yet. Any ideas are welcome :)