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  • Bayonet Use?

    Hello,

    I am somewhat in the process of starting a confederate impression. As of now, it is looking to be a early to mid-war western theater Confederate impression. I have done a little reading and have a question about bayonets and scabbards.

    In Cadet Gray and Butternut Brown, by Thomas M. Arliskas, Sir Arthur Fremantle is quoted "most of them were armed with Enfield rifles captured from the enemy. As to bayonets, an observation was made that, "many had lost or thrown away their bayonets, which they don't appear to value properly, as they assert that they never met any Yankee who would wait for that weapon." This quote is from Fremantle's review of Liddell's Brigade, Hardee's Division on June 1, 1863.

    My question: Would it be appropriate to see a number of Confederate reenactors at events without bayonets and scabbards? I know they are needed for stacking arms but maybe, depending on the scenario, some reenactors having no bayonets and scabbards would be authentic? (Unless the unit being portrayed has documentation of all soldiers having bayonets and scabbards)

    I know the quote above is directed towards a certain unit during a certain time period, therefore leaving the bayonet at home is not always a good choice. I was just curious of what everyone thought about not using bayonets at an event.

    Lastly, anyone know of other accounts of bayonets being thrown away? My 'personal library' is lacking books about the Confederacy as of now but will slowly grow.

    The search function did not help me with this question.

    Using google, I found an article by Ley Watson which did give me some other accounts of Confederates throwing away their bayonets along with numbers of bayonets being used. Very helpful.

    Thank you all,
    [FONT="Georgia"]Casimer Rosiecki[/FONT]

  • #2
    Re: Bayonet Use?

    Check out The Library of Congress and take a gander at some of their numerous images of Confederate corpses. Some of these boys are relatively unripened and are still wearing full accoutrements, some have bayonets, some do not. Also look at some supply inventories of various Reb units, you will often find bayonets lacking, I've seen perhaps as few as 30 or 40 bayonets listed in a several hundred man regiment.

    And to find some more primary resources go to Documenting the American South. (http://docsouth.unc.edu/index.html if that doesn't work). If you read all that stuff there, there are some mentions of bayonets (and other things, cart boxes, packs, etc.) being abandoned. I recommend bookmarking that DocSouth website and reading heavily.
    Last edited by CFHicks; 11-07-2006, 01:05 AM. Reason: added comment about DocSouth

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    • #3
      Re: Bayonet Use?

      Other interesting sources are the returns from the Confederate dead at Gettysburg and various lists of Union wounds treated. They are part of the OR.

      O.R.-- SERIES I, VOL XXVII, PT I . (Gettysburg returns)

      O.R.-- SERIES I--VOL XXXVI/1 [S# 67] (wounds from the Battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse - check out wounds from bayonets)
      Ley Watson
      POC'R Boys Mess of the Columbia Rifles

      [B][I]"The man who complains about the way the ball bounces is likely the one who dropped it."[/I][/B]

      [I]Coach Lou Holtz[/I]

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      • #4
        Re: Bayonet Use?

        Great article on the 'Lazyjacks' web site, too.
        Jay Spurr
        Co. 'A', 4th VA. Inf.
        SWB

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Bayonet Use?

          Jay:

          Can you spare a guy a link?
          Ley Watson
          POC'R Boys Mess of the Columbia Rifles

          [B][I]"The man who complains about the way the ball bounces is likely the one who dropped it."[/I][/B]

          [I]Coach Lou Holtz[/I]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bayonet Use?

            Thanks for the responses thus far. I believe the 'lazyjacks' web page is down so I will keep my eye on it.

            But, have any reenactors gone to events without bayonets and scabbards? I'm just curious because I believe it should maybe be considered (depending on the scenario).

            Thank you,
            [FONT="Georgia"]Casimer Rosiecki[/FONT]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bayonet Use?

              Certainly. When my M1841 rifle lacked the bayonet lug, I would carry it without a blade. I believe there have been times where I carried a Springfield and eliminated the bayonet.

              Stacking arms can be done without a bayonet. It's an art, but it's in the books.
              Marc A. Hermann
              Liberty Rifles.
              MOLLUS, New York Commandery.
              Oliver Tilden Camp No 26, SUVCW.


              In honor of Sgt. William H. Forrest, Co. K, 114th PA Vol. Infantry. Pvt. Emanuel Hermann, 45th PA Militia. Lt. George W. Hopkins & Capt. William K. Hopkins, Co. E, 7th PA Reserves. Pvt. Joseph A. Weckerly, 72nd PA Vol. Infantry (WIA June 29, 1862, d. March 23, 1866.) Pvt. Thomas Will, 21st PA Vol. Cavalry (WIA June 18, 1864, d. July 31, 1864.)

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              • #8
                Re: Bayonet Use?

                You can stack arms without bayonets. I have also seen even garrison photographs where they didn't carry bayonets.
                Breandan Mackie

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                • #9
                  Re: Bayonet Use?

                  Originally posted by ley74 View Post
                  Jay:

                  Can you spare a guy a link?

                  Until the real Lazy Jacks site is up, here is the article, linking to "The Web Archive."

                  John Taylor

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                  • #10
                    Re: Bayonet Use?

                    I recall a few years back reading on this site returns for Confederate units in the Army of Tennessee. The thing that stuck out was that there were a significant number of men without bayonets.
                    John Anderson
                    Chesapeake Volunteer Guard

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                    • #11
                      Re: Bayonet Use?

                      Snapshots from the 32nd Tennessee Infantry (Brown's/Palmer's Brigade, Army of Tennessee):

                      Record Group 109, Ch. VIII, Vol. 79 – Miscellaneous Clothing Account Book, Co. G, 32nd Tenn. Vols., 1862-1864

                      Undated Inventory (circa 1863) of Company Arms, Accoutrements and Equipage – Company G, 32nd Tennessee Infantry

                      Muskets 47
                      Bayonets 61
                      Cartridge Boxes 47
                      Cap Pouches 47
                      Waste [sic] Belts = 47
                      Shoulder Straps = 47
                      Bayonet Scabbards = 41
                      Knapsacks = 39
                      Canteens = 32
                      Canteen Straps = 32
                      Screw drivers = 4
                      Ball Screws = 4
                      Gun Wipers = 4
                      Spring Vices = 2
                      Buck and Ball Cartrages [sic] 69 cal 1940
                      Musket Caps (number not listed but may have been also 1940 based on other figures)

                      [Also 1 p[r] Shoes and 1 Cloth (?) are listed]

                      Record Group 109, Ch. VIII, Vol. 80 – Miscellaneous Clothing and Descriptive Book, Companies H – K, 32nd Tenn. Vols., 1863-1864

                      [Arms, Accoutrements, and Equipment Inventory for Captain J. Fogg’s Company K, 32nd Tennessee Infantry]

                      Station date
                      Tyners Station July 26 [1863] [This was on the rail line, 9 miles east of Chattanooga]
                      “ August 12 “
                      “ “ 25 “
                      “ September 1 “
                      [Dalton GA?] March 14 & 28 1864


                      26 July 12 Aug 25 Aug 1 Sep 14/28 Mar
                      Ostain [Austrian] Rifle Cal 54 45 48 43 46 45
                      Bayonett for Same 33 35 34 36 36
                      Cartridge Boxes 45 48 42 46 45
                      Cap Pouches 45 48 44 46 45
                      Waste Belts [sic] Buckels and Plates [sic] 44 47 45 46 45
                      Shoulder Straps 45 48 43 43 45
                      Bayonetts Scabbards 33 35 35 26 22
                      Knapsacks 20 20 20 48 52
                      Haversacks 38 38 46 48 53
                      Canteens 23 23 23 47 50
                      Canteen straps 23 23 23 45 48
                      Screw drivers 2 2 2 2 2
                      Gun Wipers 1 2 2 2
                      Spring Vice 1 1 2
                      Oustrain [Austrian] Rifle [cartridges .54] 1800 1900 1720 1840
                      Musket Caps 1800 1900 1760 1840

                      [My unsolicited analysis: Company K appears to be reasonably well-equipped. The greatest shortfalls, overall, appear to have been for bayonet scabbards. Bayonets also seem to have in short supply as well. Significant shortages in such items as knapsacks, canteens, and canteen straps appear to have been addressed during the last week of August 1863, shortly before the Battle of Chickamauga. On the whole, this seems to provide support for the theory that while the Army of Tennessee did encounter periodic shortfalls for individual types of accoutrements or personal equipment, it was well-armed. The numbers supplied for ammunition rounds on-hand indicate each man maintained at least 40 rounds in his box at all times undoubtedly in compliance with a directive issued by Braxton Bragg seen elsewhere by me.]

                      Sorry if the numbers don't line up, since I cut and pasted directly from a Word document. The numbers above were recorded on the following dates, so you can line them up as follows:

                      26 July ['63] 12 Aug 25 Aug 1 Sep 14/28 Mar ['64]


                      Regards,

                      Mark Jaeger
                      Regards,

                      Mark Jaeger

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