another button question

[W PA bumpkin]

Howdy,

I asked a question a while back (that took a different turn) regarding NC sunburst buttons. Due to several reasons I have lost/misplaced/forgotten some of the info that was offered.

To come to the point: I am looking for a source(s) for quality reproduction buttons, in particular, the "flat" or "coin" shaped NC sunburst button. Does anybody even make these in addition to the semi-dome shaped variety?

I remain curiously yours,

[Bummer]

Re: another button question

There are about perfect NC starburst buttons out there--and plenty of bad ones. I know of one place off hand that has the good ones (and some bad ones too so be carefull) and that is Fair Oaks Sutlers, but I am sure they must be able to be had elsewhere too.
The key to correct ones as opposed to junk ones is that they must be struck like a coin rather than cast, and that they must be copper rather than brass.
The original Starburst button had very poor loops which broke off with alarming frequency (just ask any relic hunter how many shankless ones are found compared to the ones with the loops) because they were perfect circles soldered onto the copper face--there wasn't much attachment area at all. The reproductions have a shank that looks sort of like the Greek letter Omega meaning that it has small projecting 'feet' which gives much more attachment space thus are much stronger. Other than that they look virtually identical and naturally 'age' up to take on the right color (like a used penny) to look just like they would have looked on the original coats.
I am one of those nuts who has reshanked original starburst buttons on one of my CSA jackets--and one reproduction like I describe above. I defy folks to tell which one is the repro.

[W PA bumpkin]

Re: another button question

Thanks, Spence; I'll check with Fair Oaks.

I'm looking forward to meeting you some day soon (due in part to our common acquaintences).

Regards,

Joe

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: another button question

Joe,

You might also contact Ben Tart and ask him about the buttons he offers. I have never examined his sunburst buttons but holding his Script I's up next to the other repops available out there his blow away the competition. If that is any indication then it may be worth a call to Ben to find out about his. Hope this helps!


Best Regards,

[W PA bumpkin]

Re: another button question

Thanks, Dan. I checked Ben's 'site and he is (still) only offering the NC State Seal buttons (of which I own several). I'll have to contact him and see if he has the others.

Right now Fair Oaks is in the lead...

Regards,

Joe

[Nighthawk]

Re: another button question

Joe,

The best I've seen are here. http://www.historicalreproduction.com/buttons.htm
He offers several differnt types of Sunburst button.

[W PA bumpkin]

Re: another button question

Joe,

The best I've seen are here. http://www.historicalreproduction.com/buttons.htm
He offers several differnt types of Sunburst button.

THAT'S the one I was looking for; expensive but exceptional quality.

Grazie,

[Bummer]

Re: another button question

Joe,
There are a couple things wrong with those. Generally they look very good, but be advised that all of his buttons are solid cast--abeit very well done.
His BT-13 of NC-16 is the better one--the more common enlisted grade--is the best looking, but when the finish he puts on wears off you will see yellow brass come through on the high points instead of 'old penny' copper. And also that one should be a struck like a coin--but they still look the best in the beginning I will agree.
The other one, his BT-6 of the NC-13, with the sans sarif letters is a high grade most likely pre-war officer grade button that originally has super detail and were all gold plated! so unless you plan on spending some bucks having a jewelry firm gold plate them, I would steer clear of them if you want good authenticity.
By the way Fair Oaks (and many other sutlers) also carries an inexpensive cast version of that button too--in yellow brass.

[edwardwatson]

Re: another button question

Last spring Ben Tart and I talked about North Carolina buttons. He suggested his state seal buttons over the sunburst (which I preferred before the conversation). His reasoning is that NC shell jackets were first issued with state seal buttons (I forget the date) and later issued with both state seal and sunburst (again, I forget the date the sunburst button was introduced, perhaps a "button head" could provide the dates). Ben's reasoning is that the state seal button is correct for a larger period than the sunburst. On that basis I purchased NC state seal buttons for my shell jacket when I have the time to make it (with his 10J, another reccomendation from Ben).

I confess I am a slut for Ben's vegitable dyed fabric and he always has lots of personal research to back up his statements. Either Ben is the best BS artist or he knows his stuff. He's also very willing to share his knowledge, even if you're asking him how to properly construct a jacket he sells so that you can make it yourself. Many makers are not willing to provide that kind of information and yet another reason I'll continue to buy fabric and thread from Ben. I may end up buying a finished jacket from him, I've been so busy making items for other folks it is hard to find the time to sew goods for myself.

Then someday I will make some copperas colored trowsers from his "Yellow Dog" jean.

Hope that rant contains some useful information.

[W PA bumpkin]

Re: another button question

Spence,

the one that I had in mind was that B-6 as I have not seen a repro of that one offered anywhere else. I'm not a button enthusiast, but I sort of fancied that one.

I have the brass cast ones like the B-13, although I simply forgot which sutler they came from. Brass with what appears to be a soldered copper ring. It also appears that the button was cast as the edge is rough from where the mold pressed the excess out.

Again, the ones offered by Fair Oaks are still in the lead. Thanks, too, for the helpful insight.

Regards,

Joe

[W PA bumpkin]

Re: another button question

I have Ben's NC State Seal buttons on my NC State jacket made out of Ben's fabric, and for the very same reason that you've just mentioned. The reasons for wanting the other buttons is for the other reason: although they weren't as prevelent, they still exsisted, and I fancy having those ones on a different jacket.

I also have a fondness for Ben's vegetable-dyed fabrics, although not as extreme. I own at least three jackets made from Ben's fabric. He's one of several suppliers who's not only a good businessman but also worthwhile getting acquainted with. Quality merchandise + a sincere personality.

Regards,

[John-Owen Kline]

Re: another button question

Based upon the relic evidence alone you need to take Mr. Waldron’s advice. The stamped copper with a yellow (gold), silver or no wash and a soldered omega shank is your period correct option to the copper NC seal on an NC issued jacket.

[W PA bumpkin]

Re: another button question

John,

Thanks for the insight. Do you know of any sources for buttons such as these? The photo that I received from Fair Oaks of their copper sunburst looked nice but it was only of the obverse. I suppose I can contact them again to find out what type of shank is used.

While we're on this topic: are there any indications of sunburst buttons used on jackets other than NC State issue? Still, are the NC State Seal buttons common only to state issue jackets, or where either type found on Depot jackets as well?

Regards,

Joe