Knapsacks

[nc69th]

I am also considering buying a knapsack and was wondering where the best place to get one at that is good quality?

Chadd M. Vail

[tsgalloway]

Re: Knapsacks

Here's the Approved Vendors link:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/links/browselinks.php?c=2

It all depends on the unit you're portraying, what time of war, among others. Good luck.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Knapsacks

It all depends on the unit you're portraying, what time of war, among others. Good luck.

...Or even simply US or CS. Different makers do different things well. So, it is easier to give feedback knowing what you are looking for. Others on this forum are much better qualified to give detailed evaluations based on comparisons to originals, but here are some of my observations...

Over the years, I have owned various knapsacks from Jarnagin (US), Missouri Boot & Shoe (US), Historic Clothiers (I&C), and LD Haning (US). A number of years ago, I had the opportunity to examine a good condition original Federal knapsack side-by-side with a friend's Historic Clothiers reproduction. Given the limitations of my knowledge, I thought the two compared quite well in terms of dimensions, materials, construction, etc.

I currently have an LD Haning Federal knapsack and am generally quite happy with it. I hope to compare it directly an original bag at some point, but based on my recollections, Mr. Welch did a darn good job. Its the dead of winter right now, so I've not seen my knapsack in a while... but I seem to recall the stench of linseed oil when it was delivered. So, I think he uses a period recipe.... I'd have to go give it a sniff to be sure.

Is a period paint recipe important to you? Some people demand it, some people don't care. If it is important to you, then ask about that detail before you hand your money over.

The version from Missouri Boot and Shoe looks pretty good, too. However, it is distinctly larger than the LD Haning bag. If you own a County Cloth Federal blanket, you'll be able to get it in the main bag of this knapsack. With some others you may be tugging hard on the straps to get them buckled. They are quite open about the fact that they do not use a linseed oil based paint recipe in their reproductions. In discussing vendors, I can't mention MB&S without talking about customer service... Robert Serio sets the bar, in my opinion!

(**Caveat here: There are differences between originals, so differences between repro-makers can be OK, as long as each is faithful to the particular original being copied**)

As far as CS bags go, I've only owned two: Historic Clothiers I&C and a Pritchard bag I got from Tom Rock about 7 years ago (I don't know who made it). Both were/are excellent, but that's not exactly a comprehensive survey of current makers.

Who's the "Best"? Each has their own strengths and weaknesses. The Jarnagin bag I owned 10+ years ago was not in the same league as the others I have mentioned. Beyond that, "The Best" is determined by your preferences.

Best of Luck
(Holy Crap! Did I just reply to a "Who makes the best...?" post!!! :wink_smil )

[ewtaylor]

Re: Knapsacks

I am also considering buying a knapsack and was wondering where the best place to get one at that is good quality?

Chadd M. Vail

Mr. Vail,
This is your 3rd post on "who makes the best...", You were given the link (more than once) to the approved vendors list and instructed to research the unit you are portraying so you will be able to ask these vendors more specific questions on the equipment and uniforms you need.
I think you would find it alot more interesting and enjoyable to do your own research.
The fellow below is listed as having some knowledge on the 69th NC Inf. You may want to contact him.
69th North Carolina Troops DerickH@charter.net (Derick Hartshorn)
good luck,
everett taylor

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Knapsacks

WARNING: GRUMPINESS ALERT!

It's so easy to post "Who makes the best...?" instead of LEARNING about the impression, gear, and current offerings of repros. Heck, it's easier to ask "Who makes the best...?" instead of using simple internet search features and the highlighted "Approved Vendors" link at the top of each page of this forum.

No wonder discussions never seem to progress beyond an extremely basic level.

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

So Kevin

lets push this discussion up a notch and instead of who makes the best how about the quality of the bags made as the war progressed?

We all know that the suppling of the military went from a relatively few vendors prior to the war to a massive business by the war's end.

That being the case would it be fair to state that the quality of the material pre-war was pretty good, dipped as 'newbies' rushed in to get government contracts and then got better again as the newbies gained experience.

Or did the quality just sink and stay sunk?

I can remember contemporay references to the time period being refered to as the "Shoddy Age" and we certainly have all heard stories of brogans and uniforms being of substandard quality (to the point of being almost useless).

Do you think the 'leathers' suffred form the same issues?

Just as a comparision I think in an article in the current CCG about haversacks the author claims the Union ordered somewhere above 4.2 million haversacks and had about 500K leftover after the war.

Based on those numbers it seems like the Union issued about 1+ bags per soldier during the war. Even if you factor in bags bought by the States it still doesn't come to much over 2 bags per soldier for the whole war.

Either that indicates a fairly decent quality or that the soldiers went a long way to ensuring that they didn't lose thier's no matter what.

But if it the quality was bad, what implications does that have for us a reenactors? For the sake of authenticity should some of us try to portray the rag-a-muffins that some soldiers seemed to be?

[Charles Heath]

Re: Knapsacks

I am also considering buying a knapsack and was wondering where the best place to get one at that is good quality?

Chadd,

In times past, this is the juncture when the mods of fame during the Reign of the Inquisition would grab a virtual Sibley tent pole and ride you out as if on a rail to that forum where family camping on the company street is the cutting edge of hobby innovation. Having looked at your last three posts, your website, your Myspace site, and some basic Thomas Legion material, I'm not so sure that reaching for the tent pole isn't the right thing to do, but against my better judg[e]ment, I'll give you some unsolicited advice that may help with your transition to the dark side:

- Evidently you live in the Charleston, SC, area. In that case, it behooves you to get in touch with Neill Rose and the lads in the Palmetto Living History Association (PLHA). Matter of fact, they have a little something coming up this month that may give you an eternal research woody. Look up "Iron Scout" for Neill's contact info on this forum, or just use your favorite search engine for the PLHA. Why get with these folks when you already have a home? Well, give it about six months, and you'll understand. Spending some time with the relics in the relic room will give you a leg up determining whether some piece of gear is quality or just more crapola from skinner row.

- Unlike most CW related fora, this one happens to have a search engine that works. While I realize that borders on blasphemy, give it a whirl sometime, and a good place to start would be by entereing the word "knapsack" in the space provided. You'll have good reading, and not all of it will apply. If you are going to spend $150-350 on a piece of equipment, it is good to do a little background work first. You may learn about legacy vendors, approved vendors, and folks you just want to run screaming from as fast as your little leggies will carry you. Use the search engine. It works.

- Few questions bring up the bile in AC Forumites as quickly as sap in a sugar Maple than "Who makes the best?" Funny thing is we all have that question sooner or later about something whether it is CW reenacting gear, golf clubs, or rebuilt Farmall hydraulic pumps. What to do? Well, the search engine (as touted above) isn't going to answer every single question you ever had, but it may improve the nature of your question, so it doesn't spew forth as "gimme all yer research, so I can run back to the knobby heads on the company street and look like an expert." It's just not a good place to be, and as some folks have noted, your first few postings leave you 0-3 in that regard. Ouch.

- Posting a little something for others to gnaw on helps your situation. The 69th NCT has an interesting history, if for no other reasons than the racial composition of a couple of companies, and the work they did with the various conscription challenges. You'd be surprised how many folks on this forum enjoy taking a break from whatever research project they may be working on at the moment to read something completely unrelated just to refresh their pallets. I found this site to be of interest: http://www.jcncgs.com/civilwar/69ncinfc.htm

- Somewhere on your website (yes, I looked) is a list of events. Most of those events are, at best, filler material for those times when nothing else is on the calendar. Seek out some better events, and you may begin to notice a difference between The Battle of Columbia and what folks in this wing of the hobby are doing. A special effort you may want to explore in July 2007 is 2nd Kernstown, which as some significance for the 69th NCT, and will be held on a portion of the actual battlefield.

Think about that for a while, and welcome to the AC Forum.

[Iron Scout]

Re: Knapsacks

OK Chadd,

Open invite here to the Relic Room's Living History event for March 23-24 in Columbia. Want to learn? Grab the car keys.

Regards,

Neill Rose
PLHA
ironscout@truvista.net
803-309-0122

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Knapsacks

It's so easy to post "Who makes the best...?" instead of LEARNING about the impression, gear, and current offerings of repros. Heck, it's easier to ask "Who makes the best...?" instead of using simple internet search features and the highlighted "Approved Vendors" link at the top of each page of this forum.

I'm gonna play "devil's advocate" for a sec here:
Without personally viewing ("viewing" = hands on inspection) a number of repros from various vendors, how would a collector, experienced and knowledgable in the minutiae of Federal knapsacks learn who is making a good knapsack using nothing but the approved vendor list?

Pretend you have no prior knowledge of the approved vendors, how many approved vendors currently offering a Federal knapsack have detailed photos on their website sufficient to allow a person such as I described above to make an informed purchase? (answer = 1 that I could find)

Kevin, I know completely what you're saying and I agree with you... there is an element of lazyness to the WMTB? posts that just doesn't belong. However, when reading a given post, you never know if the poster may be a long-time hobbyist who's just never dabbled in the fora that is frustrated looking for a good repop widget and thought, "Hey, this is great! A bunch of authentically-minded guys who could probably answer my question really well."

This morning, I found myself wondering what would happen if such a post were to spawn a thoughtful discussion of who's doing what in the realm of reproducing a given widget and the pros/cons of each.

Personally, I have been replacing some pieces of my kit lately that I've had for 5-10 years... so, for those items, I'm a little out of touch with makers in the current market. Would it really be so bad if I were to say, "Hey fellers, my basement got damp this winter and my 1839 cartridge box is sporting a fine film of mold and some rot, who's making a good '39 box these days?"?

I remember a year or two ago when a buddy of mine posted asking for a kepi pattern. He was pounced for trying to make an item himself by members of this site because "he would never get good enough results because he didn't have experience", etc. The guy had been in the hobby since at least the 125ths, sewing his own uniforms (and doing a great job!!) since he was in High School! Seems like potential for a similar situation to me.

Nuf sed
(Two more posts were added between the time I started to type and when I actually posted... so my post is a tad "out of sequence". Anyway, I'm sincerely sorry if I added to the welling of anyone's bile, so to speak)

[Charles Heath]

Re: Knapsacks

John,

Evidently you and I drank from the same canteen this morning. ;)

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: So Kevin

Just as a comparision I think in an article in the current CCG about haversacks the author claims the Union ordered somewhere above 4.2 million haversacks and had about 500K leftover after the war.

I wonder where that article was plagarized from. It seems CCG has cut off my subscription--probably because each issue they sent gets them a letter saying how it was stolen from someone else.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Knapsacks

John,

Then I'd look for that long-time hobbyist to write more than "who makes the best...?" by way of effectively communicating his question.

Instead, by me saying I'm tired of WMTB...? questions, I'm being a nasty, stereotypical, selfish, hardcore who simply misunderstands and bites the head off poor, unsuspecting nice guys who only want to improve. Yadda yadda yadda. I've seen and heard it all before.

I think long-time members of this forum have a right to expect better quality on this forum and less laziness.

[Danimal29]

Re: Knapsacks

Can't we all just get along, damn!

[Charles Heath]

Re: Knapsacks

I would look for the bulk of the long time hobbyists to ignore the question, or just quit visiting such forums where these questions flood over the far more useful information. Why on Earth would some FMA come to this forum and ask WMTBS?

A smartass might assume they come here because they are the only member of their group who hasn't been lobotomized on sutler row (free refills). Don't laugh too hard, because it hasn't been but about three years since we starting wondering if all the corporals and sergeants in certain sectors of the hobby had died or been rendered mute and deaf. Time was when knowledge was passed down to newbies through unit handbooks, vendor lists, checksheets, newsletters, and other hardcopy, and was a step up from the campfire BS that serves the same these days. These poor souls come here mostly because they have absolutely no confidence in finding the answer in their home unit's resources.

That is sad.

At one time, the AC Forum had a sump for these questions in the form of "The Awkward Squad" folder, and it gave the more experienced members and chance to avoid the repetitive "how do I boil a cup of coffee," or "who makes the best tard cloth" type questions that appear over and over again ad nauseum. Such a protective folder also gave the fresh fish a little place to go to ask questions without fear of becoming the next forum fillet of fish. Maybe it is time to revisit such a concept. With some of the mod tools on the forum these days, the haversack threads could be merged into one, ditto for the knapsack threads, and an Awkward Squad folder would eventually become a useful entity.

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Well Somebody

I wonder where that article was plagarized from. It seems CCG has cut off my subscription--probably because each issue they sent gets them a letter saying how it was stolen from someone else.

Has to try and keep them honest.

Sometimes I wonder how much plagarism really REALLY goes on. Afterall we've all read the same books, worked the same museum collections, how much of what we discover is influenced by others we've encountered and how much of it is stolen word for word?

And when does being influenced cross the line to plagarism?

All that being said considering the problems CCG has had in the last year you'd think they'd get the message and better vet the submitted articles.