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  • #31
    Re: Patches

    Remember also that fabric worn enough to hole through needs reinforced for some distance from the hole, meaning that a patch applied from the front would need to be quite large. A repair on the inside of a garment could be much more substantial.

    Where to get patches might be another matter. As Bob Sandusky pointed out, exchanging clothing with a corpse would probably solve the problem without use of patches, morbid as it might seem to a 21st-century mind.

    While I have never cut up a uniform to perform field patches, I have ripped up a lot of modern clothing to make quilts, which gives me some idea of wear patterns. A single ruined pair of pants (no seat at all, nothing left worth patching), about t be discarded by someone who had acquired others by any imaginable means, could supply a number of patches for less worn garments. The lower legs of pants hardly ever wear through. They would be apt to have picked up mud stain to some degree, and fading might not be uniform, but they would be close enough to the same color and weight of fabric to serve the purpose.

    Jackets, greatcoats and other upper garments would be more likely to fray at collar and cuffs, wear through at the elbows, and let go at the shoulder seams and underarms (I am curious; if you handle a rifle regularly in the field, do you see more wear on the right shoulder and underarm?) I would expect powder stains and burns on the right side and wear where the rifle is shouldered, as well as knapsack strap wear. From the old jackets and coats I've dismantled over the years, I'd say the back, left chest area, and skirt (on a frock) would be the best source of patches. In fact, although I don't have the material in front of me at the moment, I recall someone posted an account of Sherman's troops in the Carolinas in which one man said not a greatcoat cape or the skirt of a frock was left, all having been used to put seats in worn-out pants.

    The really fussy among us :) may choose to set their patches with thread pulled from the edge of the patch piece, so as to be sure of a better blend. With a little practice, you can learn to reweave tiny holes. If you've ever rewoven even a small part of a woolen garment, you know what a pain it is, but it does produce a neat result if the hole is very small and the fabric around it relatively good (cinder burns, small tears, etc.).
    Becky Morgan

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Patches

      I guess I will keep this stirred up with the same reference to the artillery boy's trousers in the Texas CW Museum. I have looked at these closely and the "patches" cover almost the entire upper thighs in a closely matching cloth to appear as if they were put there for further protection from wear. These are sewn on top of the trousers, not from underneath most likely because the pants are fully lined. They are nicely turned under at the edges and look well done. This may be unsual, but as I stated earlier, he was wearing them when wounded on July 4, 1863. I am a volunteer there and will get some photos if possible. I am not proposing a run to put patches and "wear strips" on pants, just letting those out there interested about what I have come accoss.

      Joe Walker

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Patches

        Neill Rose was kind enough to share some images of garments out in the SC Relic Room. They are not mine to post so I will not but there were several examples which fit this message strand. The most vivid was a Richmond Depot jacket of imported BG kersey with a length of sow brown jean "patching" some sort of damage on one of the sleeves. The jean piece ran virtually the entire inside forearm portion of the sleeve, cuff to above the elbow.

        Piecing would be another good topic but that should go on a different thread.

        And as Cody has mentioned, Joe Walker, though by no means the "post king" on these forums, is a man who should need no introduction. I remember Joe showing up at musters here and there when I was a wee lad down Texas way. He has had a hand in helping MANY folks and is not one to talk down nor to offend folks. We need more like him for sure.

        My two cents,
        Fred Baker

        "You may call a Texian anything but a gentleman or a coward." Zachary Taylor

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Patches

          [QUOTE=Gallo de Cielo;55784]
          Piecing would be another good topic but that should go on a different thread.
          QUOTE]

          Mr. Baker,

          I'm glad you mentioned piecing of garments, and agree is deserves a thread of it's own. It is a practice that is far more common on originals then currently practiced in hobby. I can not begin to list on here the original garments I have seen that are pieced in some form or another.

          In reference to the current thread on patching, In the "Echoes of Battle" series the book on the Atlanta campaign has a photograph of a seated union soldier, in a sack coat with a patch on his shoulder where wear would occur from knapsack straps, musket drill etc. I am at work right now so I do not have the book in front of me to give the specific page number, I will look tonight when I get home.

          Another image of patching was posted before the big crash, it was the photograph of the soldiers in front of the monument at Bull Run from the LOC. In the zoomed in version one of the soldiers has a very obvious patch of a different material on his shoulder. Perhaps some one saved the photograph before the crash and can post it.

          regards,
          -Seth Harr

          Liberty Rifles
          93rd New York Coffee Cooler
          [I]
          "One of the questions that troubled me was whether I would ever be able to eat hardtack again. I knew the chances were against me. If I could not I was just as good as out of the service"[/I]
          [B]-Robert S. Camberlain, 64th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry[/B]

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Patches

            The RD Jacket that you mention, Fred, (as relayed to me by another forum member) was worn by William Floyd Jackson of Co'y G 6th SC Volunteers. The patch conforms nicely to the shape of the sleeve as if it were cut by a tailor....not sewn with large stitches by someone with little sewing skills. The original garment was of British cloth, and I am wondering if the jean used to patch it up was not also a hue that would match the British cloth.....meaning a variant of Logwood or sumac which would have oxidized to the brown color we now see.
            Cody Mobley

            Texas Ground Hornets
            Texas State Troops

            [HOUSTON] TRI-WEEKLY TELEGRAPH, October 28, 1863,

            Wanted.

            All ladies in Houston and surrounding counties who have cloth on hand, which they can spare, are requested to donate it to the ladies of Crockett for the purpose of making petticoats for the Minute Men of this county, who have "backed out" of the service. We think the petticoat more suitable for them in these times.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Patches

              In an earlier post someone mentioned/wrote, where would the soldiers get matching fabric for a patch. I roll my trousers because of their length being to long. Whenever I've had to make a small patch (only been once or twice), I removed some fabric from the bottom of the trouser, patched the hole (same fabric), and then rolled the trousers back again. Has anyone found this to be the case?
              [FONT="Times New Roman"]Robert Masella
              Wheeling Fencibles
              Pridgeon's Shenandoah Legion
              Southern Division

              "Quem Deus vult perdere, prius dementat" (The one whom God wants to destroy, he first makes mad): Col. S. Crutchfield, (Jackson's Chief of Artillery)[/FONT]

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Patches

                I'm surprised no one has posted an image of the excellent work done on that pretty suit of clothes in the visitor center at Mansfield. Over the years, there has been a little controversy about garments in that collection being UCV-era, but the workmanship -- especially in the closed buttonholes, is pretty darn special.

                Keep 'em coming.
                [B]Charles Heath[/B]
                [EMAIL="heath9999@aol.com"]heath9999@aol.com[/EMAIL]

                [URL="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Spanglers_Spring_Living_History/"]12 - 14 Jun 09 Hoosiers at Gettysburg[/URL]

                [EMAIL="heath9999@aol.com"]17-19 Jul 09 Mumford/GCV Carpe Eventum [/EMAIL]

                [EMAIL="beatlefans1@verizon.net"]31 Jul - 2 Aug 09 Texans at Gettysburg [/EMAIL]

                [EMAIL="JDO@npmhu.org"] 11-13 Sep 09 Fortress Monroe [/EMAIL]

                [URL="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Elmira_Death_March/?yguid=25647636"]2-4 Oct 09 Death March XI - Corduroy[/URL]

                [EMAIL="oldsoldier51@yahoo.com"] G'burg Memorial March [/EMAIL]

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Patches

                  Being as the closed buttonholes on that jacket don't have anything to do with patches, wouldnt that post and this post, as well, be a little off topic?
                  Cody Mobley

                  Texas Ground Hornets
                  Texas State Troops

                  [HOUSTON] TRI-WEEKLY TELEGRAPH, October 28, 1863,

                  Wanted.

                  All ladies in Houston and surrounding counties who have cloth on hand, which they can spare, are requested to donate it to the ladies of Crockett for the purpose of making petticoats for the Minute Men of this county, who have "backed out" of the service. We think the petticoat more suitable for them in these times.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Patches

                    Mr Baker and Mr Harr,

                    In regards to "piecing" of material, the nicest work I have seen is the the Johnston frock in the AHC (Alabama boy killed at Peachtree Creek). Years ago it was on an upright form and the work couldn't be better. I believe his wife (or his mother, can't remember) did a nice job hiding the add-on of material to have enough to finish the garment. She made the piece of jean squeel when this coat was made. There is also the pants depicted in the old "Confederate Sketchbook" with many splices in the rear panels. Sorry to get off subject, but perhaps this could be carried on with another forum.

                    Joe Walker

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Patches

                      Cody,

                      Not a bit. The topic of clothing repair, modification, and the level of workmanship displayed (both good and bad) is certainly germane to this thread. In fact, modified clothing and equipment items could fill a book -- well beyond the excellent Frankenrelic article, and some other similar pieces. A man with a keen eye towards photographs, both modern and period, could probably come up with an excellent article on repairs, especially patching. It is good this thread has moved from the notion that patching new or like new clothing with 6" or 8" square pieces high contrast cloth is a "good idea."

                      It may be a good thread to rehash the Worsham-McCarthy-Watkins stoked "Ragged Rebel" body of mythology one more time. The mention of the 21st Virginia reminded me of that, and the grains of salt needed for digestion.
                      [B]Charles Heath[/B]
                      [EMAIL="heath9999@aol.com"]heath9999@aol.com[/EMAIL]

                      [URL="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Spanglers_Spring_Living_History/"]12 - 14 Jun 09 Hoosiers at Gettysburg[/URL]

                      [EMAIL="heath9999@aol.com"]17-19 Jul 09 Mumford/GCV Carpe Eventum [/EMAIL]

                      [EMAIL="beatlefans1@verizon.net"]31 Jul - 2 Aug 09 Texans at Gettysburg [/EMAIL]

                      [EMAIL="JDO@npmhu.org"] 11-13 Sep 09 Fortress Monroe [/EMAIL]

                      [URL="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Elmira_Death_March/?yguid=25647636"]2-4 Oct 09 Death March XI - Corduroy[/URL]

                      [EMAIL="oldsoldier51@yahoo.com"] G'burg Memorial March [/EMAIL]

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Patches

                        As mentioned many people are worried where do you get the material for patching?

                        Much would be available from corpses and much could come from blankets excetra.....

                        But I think most would come from, the previously issued un-serviceable garments. They wouldn't just throw them away when issued new. It seems to me they would be torn up for cleaning rags and clothes patches. Some probably would have been boiled and gone the way of linting and bandages, but I dare say most would have been kept for "private use" by the soldier.

                        As mentioned above many garments even when un-serviceable will still have some good material left.

                        just my 2cents

                        Respects,

                        M Williams
                        Mark Williams

                        "One more step on the pathway of Knowledge, that is if we don't break our leg crossing the street"

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Patches

                          Ahh, Mr. Heath, I'm sure these genteel but quite ragged fellows in the 21st Virginia would be entertained by your opinion concerning the veracity of their comrade Mr. Worsham's narrative (and others) and the promulgation of the ragged Rebel image. No doubt they'd welcome the dose of salt as well, or any type of issue for that matter.
                          Last edited by roundshot; 04-28-2007, 02:35 PM.
                          Bob Williams
                          26th North Carolina Troops
                          Blogsite: http://26nc.org/blog/

                          As [one of our cavalry] passed by, the general halted him and inquired "what part of the army he belonged to." "I don't belong to the army, I belong to the cavalry." "That's a fact," says [the general], "you can pass on." Silas Grisamore, 18th Louisiana

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Patches

                            I'd also like to chime in. There is some validity to the ragged rebel, depending on the timeplace/campaign and unit. Just read through primary sources that support times of being well-clothed and others in which the soldiers were nearly naked. No "blanket statements" can be made.
                            Tristan Galloway

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Patches

                              Re: Patches
                              As my wife is professional sewer, she rememinded me that you can take some of the cloth off of the tail of your shirt to patch- you can't get more matching than that. How many people have used their poke sacks for emergency patches, or even your hanky, or haversack liner?

                              Cris Westphal
                              1st Mich Vol.
                              Cris L. Westphal
                              1st. Mich. Vol.
                              2nd. Kentucky (Morgans Raiders)
                              A young man should possess all his faculties before age,liquor, and stupidity erase them--Major Thaddeus Caractus Evillard Bird(Falconer Legion CSA)

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Patches

                                Originally posted by Joe Walker View Post
                                Mr Baker and Mr Harr,

                                In regards to "piecing" of material, the nicest work I have seen is the the Johnston frock in the AHC (Alabama boy killed at Peachtree Creek). Years ago it was on an upright form and the work couldn't be better. I believe his wife (or his mother, can't remember) did a nice job hiding the add-on of material to have enough to finish the garment. She made the piece of jean squeel when this coat was made. There is also the pants depicted in the old "Confederate Sketchbook" with many splices in the rear panels. Sorry to get off subject, but perhaps this could be carried on with another forum.

                                Joe Walker

                                Mr. Walker,

                                Personally the most intricately pieced item I have examined is the T.V. Brooke jacket, not only is the lining pieced on the right side but the collar is made up of 7 pieces of black cotton peiced together. Whoever constructed the jacket originally spent an awful lot of time and care putting that collar together.

                                In reference to my earlier post today, the photograph of the man with the patched sack coat can be found on page 13 of the Echoes of Battle Atlanta book.

                                One other thing I think needs to be touched on in the thread is some previous posts mentioned about where and how a soldier could procure cloth for patching purposes. Some members had mentioned about scrounging the dead as a source, while I don’t think anyone will deny this did occur after a battle it is far from the only source of material a soldier could access. We need to remember how resourceful some soldiers can be. I have seen first hand accounts as well as lists of inventories from deceased soldiers where there more then one jacket, coat or other clothing article listed in the items. Just because a soldier drew new clothing didn’t mean he necessarily discarded his older garments as these accounts show. As for other means, even in the army today you get people of an unscrupulous nature, same was true with the army back then. I wouldn’t have put it past some of the boys to walk off with a jacket or other clothing article that wasn’t theirs if they felt they could get away with it.

                                Regards,
                                -Seth Harr

                                Liberty Rifles
                                93rd New York Coffee Cooler
                                [I]
                                "One of the questions that troubled me was whether I would ever be able to eat hardtack again. I knew the chances were against me. If I could not I was just as good as out of the service"[/I]
                                [B]-Robert S. Camberlain, 64th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry[/B]

                                Comment

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