Black Pants? Please help...

[Johnny Lloyd]

To all:

Hello. I'm new to this site, but not to the hobby. I'm Johnny Lloyd and am an officer currently stationed in the US Army (modern) in Friedberg, Germany after returning from Iraq for 14 months back to my wife here. (How wonderful it is to come home from war, too!) :)

Well, I'll be getting out of the Army soon and looking forward to getting back into the hobby I left 4 years ago. I've been a reenactor for the past 10 years (since 1997) and look upon it as my "alternate self". I'm like a kid at Christmas at the thought of all of the fellowship, learning and fun the hobby is and has been for me.

My question to anyone that can answer it is: I have a pair of awesomely handmade, black cotton trousers I use for my civilian impression. Are there any records of black trousers being worn by either Union or Confederate soldiers as officially part of or private purchase/"procurement" uniform items? I'd look it up in a period image, but hey... they're black-and-white. Dark blue tends to show-up as blackish grey in color on old photographs.

Thanks to ya'll and please support your troops!

Yours- Johnny Lloyd
Captain, US Army
Operation Iraqi Fredom Veteran (2006-2007)

[Charles Heath]

Re: Black Pants? Please help...

Lt. Charlie Denoon of the 41st Va. Infantry had a nice pair of black trousers. He mentions this in at least one of his many letters.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Black Pants? Please help...

Thanks, Charles!

Just curious: I'd like to know how -common- the color black would be seen on a Civil War soldier? I'd guesstimate that it was pretty common for citizen's finery, but not for military pants. I have not seen any in any museum associated with a soldier's uniform nor in historical pictoral references (i.e.- Echoes of Glory). Here's my theory: Perhaps, correct me if I deviate, that there are certain reasons why-

1) Black was the Victorian color of mourning- not too swift to wear THAT color on a battlefield especially at that time

2)Lack of clothing dyes in the later-war years most probably made grey an easier color to achieve anyway.

3) Didn't "look military" to Victorian eyes... but how long would that hold up to the need for pants???

Ya'll's thoughts? ;)

[GermanDraftee]

Re: Black Pants? Please help...

I cannot speak about other units, but I know that the original uniform of (Capt. Christian) Thielemann's Cavalry (later 16th IL Cav) included black trousers for both officers and enlisted men.
Tägliche Illinois Staats-Zeitung, 6 August, 1861.

[CJDaley]

Re: Black Pants? Please help...

Someplace in my files I've got an account of Wisconsin soldiers getting issued black overcoats and black trowsers. Let me see if I can dig up that doucment for you.

[jarednichols]

Re: Black Pants? Please help...

I just happen to have been reading the book "Wilson's Creek" by William Piston and Richard Hatcher and it gives a short desciption of the uniform at the outbreak of hostilities for mounted soldiers of the Missouri State Guard from Dekalb, County as " grey hunting shirts with matching caps, and black trousers with yellow stripes to mark their cavalry service"

not sure if your doing an early war confederate cavalry impression at the outbreak of the Wilson's Creek campaign...but if you are your good to go

Jared Nichols
Captain, U.S. Army

[Richmond Depot]

Re: Black Pants? Please help...

Early War, Co. B, 15th Va. Infantry regiment. Black trousers, dark blue overshirts and black overcoats. Virginia Life Guard, from Richmond, Va.

Best,

[markj]

Re: Black Pants? Please help...

The 49th Ohio was issued a significant quantity of black-dyed overcoats in late 1862. I know this because I found a directive in the 49th OVI regimental order book (now at the National Archives) appointing a board of survey to determine their serviceability. Many troops of the 49th OVI presumably wore these very coats at Stones River.

Yours, &c.,

Mark Jaeger

[GreencoatCross]

Early examples of black Fed. garments.

There's two original black Federal overcoats that I have been able to view in the past year. One of which is in the collection of the Wisconsin Veteran's Museum; this one is made from a very interesting mixed black wool, having the appearance of felt on one side and unfinished satinet on the other. This overcoat was machine-sewn with logwood dyed thread and lined with an incredibly thick dark brown and undyed cassimere-like cotton material. I don't remember the provenance of this overcoat but it presumably came from an early Wisconsin regiment.

The second overcoat is in the collection of Don Troiani. Although I didn't take a very close look at it while I was at his place it appeared to have been made from black wool kersey and lined with, I believe, a plain-weave red wool, almost looking like a bunting material.

Even more interesting was the black worsted wool broadcloth Federal frock coat that popped up on eBay a few months ago. The coat was constructed in the same manner as other Federal frock coats but the body was cut from black cloth instead of blue! The collar and cuff welting was a washed-out blue-green color, possibly dyed with the cheap indigo substitute known as "Saxon blue." Additional photos of the garment supplied by the seller ruled out, in my opinion at least, the frock being an altered post-war fraternal lodge coat or civilian garment.

Yet another eBay garment I saw for sale twice in the past 8 months was a black single-breasted civilian frock coat from the period that had been altered for military use. Extra buttonholes had been added to the upper portion of the collar lapels to facilitate the full buttoning of the frock and large gilt infantry officer buttons had been added to the front and tails, while the cuffs were trimmed with small infantry officer buttons. The first time I saw the garment up for sale it had very nice stamped brass border captain's shoulder straps (with royal blue velvet backing) but the second time it was sold the owner had removed the buttons and straps. Though not an example of a Federally supplied black uniform this is still a pretty neat item.

It seems the use of black cloth for various pieces of uniform was obiously practiced early in the war, with state contracts, local organizations, and even some clothing houses filling uniform orders with whatever suitable cloth they had on hand. This even goes into the realm of jeans, cassimere, and satinet Federal uniforms but that's another topic entirely.

Brian White
Wambaugh, White, & Co.

[markj]

Re: Black Pants? Please help...

I posted the following two or three years ago.

42nd Virginia deserter notice, 8 September 1863 Richmond VA semi-weekly "Enquirer."

HQRS. JONES' BRIGADE,
Aug. 20th, 1863.

$180 REWARD.--Deserted from the 42d Virginia Regiment, Johnson's Division, at camp near Orange Court House, on the night of the 18th August (inst[ant]) [1863] the following named soldiers:

Privates Robert Anderson, Co. A; James Compton, Co. F; [G?] O. Gregory, Co. F; Samuel H. Peay, Co. F; Tyler C. Stultz, Co. F[;] and Geo. K. Eggleton, Co. F[.]
All of the above men are from Henry county, Va.

Anderson is 25 years old, about 5 feet 8 inches high, auburn hair[,] fair complexion, hazel eyes, and at the time he left had on grey Confederate jacket and pants and black wool hat.
Compton is about 6 feet high, 45 years of age, auburn hair, blue eyes, dark complexion, thin visage, and rather rough features; had on when he left blue army pants, pale checked shirt, black wool hat and cloth shoes.
Gregory is about 27 years old, dark hair, red goatee and moustache, hazel eyes, red complexion and rather fleshy; had on when he left grey jacket and pants, white wool hat and cloth shoes.
Peay is about 6 feet high 28 years old, auburn hair, blue eyes, pale complexion; had on when he left grey jacket and pants, broad brim straw hat covered with black cloth, and cloth shoes.
Stultz is 5 feet 9 inches high, 25 years old, auburn hair, blue eyes, red, healthy complexion, dark side whiskers and moustache; had on when he left black pants, grey jacket and black wool hat.
Eggleton is 5 feet 9 inches high[,] 24 years old, light hair, thin and short, pale, sallow complexion, face bloated, and pale blue eyes; had on when he left grey jacket and pants, and black wool hat.
The reward of $180 each will be paid for the apprehension and delivery of the above named deserters to the commandant of the nearest post where arrested, or to their regiment.
Information must be forwarded to the commanding officer of Jones' Brigade, Johson's Division, 2d Corps, A. N. Va.
By order of Col. BRADLEY T. JOHNSON, com'g Brigade.

JAMES BRUCE,
Major and Q. M.
se1-c4w
*********************
Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[unclefrank]

Re: Black Pants? Please help...

It looks like all the "red heads" took French leave in that outfit. :confused_

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Black Pants? Please help...

Hallo!

Black is not "all" that totally unusual.

In the first year of the War, in Ohio, Captain John H. Dickerson Quartermaster, became embroiled in a scandal with General Fremont's scrambling to arm and uniform Ohio and Indiana troops- "scrounging" suitable uniforms and supplies from a number of contractors and small businesses and firms.
A number of Ohio units were mustered in with black uniforms.

Curt

[Matthew.Rector]

Re: Black Pants? Please help...

I posted this info in another thread in March 2004.


From Richard Moe's history of the First Minnesota Volunteers, The Last Full Measure:

"The problem of inadequate clothing and equipment was not as easily remedied. In addition to the blanket, shirt, and pair of socks each man was given on arrival to Fort Snelling, he later received a pair of black pants and a slouch hat. Only the men from Company K had anything resembling a uniform; they wore light gray suits made by the patriotic women of Winona."

page 22
The Last Full Measure: The Life and Death of the First Minnesota Volunteers
by Richard Moe
Minnesota Historical Society Press (2001)
1993
ISBN 0-87351-406-8
Originally published by Henry Holt and Co., Inc. 1993

[JacobReichwein]

Re: Black Pants? Please help...

I've heard of confederates dying Federal clothing black with rust or something.

[riptailedroarer]

Re: Black Pants? Please help...

James Horrocks aka Andrew Ross of the 5th Battery, New Jersey Volunteers.had his cdv taken in october 1863 wearing a pair of black trowsers that he brought with him from England.