Wearing US Buckles Upside Down

[aaron1stvirginia]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

i agree if it was done it was rare. but i do little talks for boy scouts and i always try to throw in little facts that they won't ever hear in school or somethin. i believe the most surprised face i've ever seen was when i was in a 4th grade class and the teacher said that they were talkin about the "cause" of the civil war and i said not slavery and she looked at me like i'd killed her dog. i had a book with me with letters from the war and one was by lincoln where he said he had no intentions on freeing slaves. but fun stuff.

[Joe Walker]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

I believe the photo of one of Ewell's men dead at the Alsop farm- battle of Spotsylvania, lying against rail fence, is the classic upside down US Plate photo (I believe I am right on this)- O'Sullivan/Gardner stero #725- May 20, 1864 MOLLUS-Mass.

Joe Walker

[Jimmayo]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

Concerning the Alsop farm picture: It may have been that the soldier simply did not care how the buckle faced but was just wearing the belt that way because he put the other end through the cartridge box loops because the buckle end was hard to fit. That could easily have been the reason for the orientation of the buckle. You just never know.

[unclefrank]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

Nice closeup Brian. You can even count the stitches on his cartridge box!

[jgr1974]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

OK, now we are counting stitches!!!! Well, I will try to locate my books and find the pic. Very nice belt and buckle. For those who are curious, it is not just a belt that has been inverted for the picture. The owner , I believe an R. L. Tyler from Texas, inked his name on it. When reading the name in an upright position, the buckle is inverted.

The Mad MIck!!!!

PS Mr Richardson is my father, but thank you for the respect, but you can call me Jeremy, or Brother!!! (Watson, ILL 602)

[jgr1974]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

OK, found the picture of the belt In LonKeim's book Confederate General accouterment Plates page 297. To my surprise is an image in the upper right that depicts an unidentified Confederate wearing a nice early war jacket or "battleshirt". I believe he is a Missisipian, anyways he is wearing on inverted US buckle. I will try to post the image here I am no computer expert, I live in the 19th Century!


The Mad Mick!!!

ps I was wrong the webbing belt belongs to a R L Ward not Tyler of Texas!!!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

Hallo!

"I was wandering if anyone knows of a confederate soldier wearing a US buckle upside down. I've noticed that at a few reenactments that some johnny rebs were wearing their US buckles upside down. How authentic is that?"

IMHO, very authentic if their research and documentation shows that the solider they are portraying for their impression or persona in that unit, time, and place wore his US belt plate upside down.

Failing that, we might possibility get into a discussion of documenting the existence of an item or a practice as to how "common" it was for others to have done the same. Or how far we can take a "something" and have many lads everywhere using it or doing it.
Somewhere around here I have a Lookout Mountain image of a small federal company posing where one man in the group has a British "snake buckle."
It might go well with my jaguar chaps and toothbrush in my jacket button-hole.
;) :) :) :)

Just posting a thought... but only half a-funnin'... when it comes to what goes on and what is seen at some kinds of events.

Curt
Reliable and Valid Inferences Mess

[aaron1stvirginia]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

that was a good article and it makes sence about the flimsy cs acoutrements and the lack thereof. i read somewhere where the men complained that the brogans were poorly made. so this corolates with that. i appreciate that. i sent that piece to a man who i recently argued with over whether or not that would be done. and it seems i have proof and it won't be a lie when i tell others of it. thanks a million.

[aaron1stvirginia]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

mr. schmidt
i must say that it is over done especially in the unit i'm in. to what research i've done i'd have to say our group was one of the best outfitted in the cavalry but we like to overlook alot of it. we do dismounted cav-infantry (very messy) i'm fallin in with the 37th nc infantry and i believe they got it together better. jaguar chaps, i might have to get some of those to wear campaigner. but i was wandering if it was done at all or if it was a reenactorism and so far it's been proven both. yet while not every csa soldier wore a us buckle upside down it did happen. and almost every person i know that does cs wears a us buckle upside down. how funny it gets.

[AZFarrier]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

Back in the 1980's a confederate mass grave was uncovered at Glorietta pass NM. many of the soldiors wore US uniforms the only differance between them and the US soldiors were the US buckel turned up side down. Here in the west the majority of the CS army (Sibley Brigade) received thier unforms from captured US stores. There is alot of mention both in the battles of Val Verde and Glorietta Pass NM of the CS soldiors and US soldiors looking alike that there were mistakes on the battle field especially with the Colorado Troops (US), they resembled the Texans so much that the Texas advance was held up briefly in the battle of Val Verde.

On a side note the Archialogical evidence also showed that the soldiors brogans were tied from top to bottom, not bottom to top like now a-days. Just wanted to share that interesting tidbit.

Andy Miller
1st CAL Cav

[Rob Weaver]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

I've seen that Mississippian many times. Is it possible that the upside down buckles, although a period action, were really just a convention for the camera, like a joke? Are there any photos of Confederates under field conditions doing the same thing? Is it possible for a fashion "fad" to jump the track and go from the photographer's studio to the field for no apparent reason other than the men thought it was funny?

[ewtaylor]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

I've seen that Mississippian many times. Is it possible that the upside down buckles, although a period action, were really just a convention for the camera, like a joke? Are there any photos of Confederates under field conditions doing the same thing? Is it possible for a fashion "fad" to jump the track and go from the photographer's studio to the field for no apparent reason other than the men thought it was funny?

There is a photo of a dead CS soldier wearing one. I think it is a late war image. I'll try to find it and post it if noone beats me to it.
everett taylor

[Adjutant]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

Mr. Taylor,

I believe the photo of which you speek is already posted on page two of this discussion.

The photo in question is of a Confederate killed during the fighting around the Alsop farm on May 19, 1864, the action more commonly known as the Battle at the Harris Farm, at the close of the Battle of Spottsylvania Courthouse.

The soldier in question is from Ewell's Second Corps, Army of Northern Virginia.

[Resaca]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

Some original US beltplates I've seen have the hooks in the back turned in the opposite direction. Could some of this be a left handed-right handed thing? Awesome picture of the Spotsylvania soldier. There's another picture of him from a different angle without the rifle, you can see him and the other soldier in the distance who also had his own photo made by Gardner. Neat pictures to study for late-war Confederate.

Tony Patton

[jgr1974]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

OK, we have an image of a dead Southeroner, an image of a Missispian, and many accounts of bickles and accouterments being taken, worn upside down, and even found in large numbers in mass graves. I am sure this is just skiving the surface on documentation. To say it never happened in my opinion is a "reenactorism" in itself!!! I will try to do some more research, I remeber reading of Tennessee troops wearing US gear early in the war but don't recall about inverted buckles, I will dig out the books.

It may not be feasable for an entire company to wear inverted buckles, but it was probably more comon than one may think! What documentatiion do we have of multiple soldiers wearing in one company or regiment? Well wait didn't a fella give documentation of CS soldiers in TX wearing US uniforms with inverted US buckles? I highly doubt the burial crews for these men took of the belts these men were wearing and inverted them prior to their burial!!!

Field images-yes a dead rebel in the trenches could be an artist prop, late war living CS soldiers in the field rare!!!! Confederate prisonor images? Very unlikely to see any belts at all!!! The belt was not used in that era aas it is today. Most generally the belt was used for load bearing, much as a police officer or carpenter uses a belt to hold their tools. If the men were in camp, belts would be stripped with the rest of their gear?

I think we can draw a conclusion from some of the little facts left here on this forum that inverting a US belt buckle is appropriate. We have a late war dead Reb, an early war living Reb (at the time), and multiple documented occurences.

The Mad Mick!!!