Wearing US Buckles Upside Down

[Garrett Silliman]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

I think the conclusion that we can draw is that we know that at times some CS troops used captured and/or reissued US gear. There are period photos that suggest that of these men - some of them, at some point, wore a US belt inverted. I think that the disputed issue is not did it happen, but rather why and to what extent. Unless a hitherto unknown primary document emerges saying "today I received a captured US belt, and I decided to wear it upside down because..." - I think that we are simply speculating. In my opinion, I think the whole SN story that gets repeated to the public (and at museums no less) is a bunch of hooey - that isn't to say that some CS troops didn't wear inverted US belts. Then again, I say some. The next question is how common was this practice? Is it something that is screaming for representation in the living history world?

[aaron1stvirginia]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

Mr. Silliman,
I personally agree with you on this one about the southern nation. I've never seen it written anywhere about it. Most likely a clever guise for an unknown answer. I myself prefer the militia belts or state belts or even just a rollerbuckle belt, however it has been proven that wearing a US buckle upside down did in fact happen. I might say how many militia units had US buckles or how many men came from out west straight into the war, or if they might have picked it up and that's all they had. It all could have happened. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong but just thinking is all.


sincerely

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

Hallo!

"Some original US beltplates I've seen have the hooks in the back turned in the opposite direction. Could some of this be a left handed-right handed thing? "

In brief and to over-generalize...

Those are/ dragoon (or rifleman) belt plates issued roughly from 1839-1851 but used somewhat later
The "hooks" or "studs" that "permanently" fasten the plate to the belt are behind the "U" in "US" rather than the "S."
For riflemen it did not matter though. For dragoons, with the shoulder belt and sling straps in the way, teh cartridge box had ot slide over the end of the belt on the wearer's right which required the belt plate to be attached on the wearer's left.

The large style US oval plates worn by infantry after 1857 are found made EITHER way- even though it did not matter in terms of usage. Either way, it did not seem to stop an inspector from passing them into service.

Yes, switching from one side to the other could possibly explain an upside-down US plate although I do not think a federal would have gotten away with it where a Confederate might have. ;) :)

But as we know, seeing an upside-down US belt plate does not speak to us as to intent, just occurrance. I am left-handed, but do not wear "left-handed belts" as I see no advantage one way or the other, and there are no "left-handers"' in the Army... ;) :) :)
And, of course, what I do has no bearing on what CW soldiers did (just the other way around) . ;)

Curt

[Matthew.Rector]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

Hallo!

Yes, switching from one side to the other could possibly explain an upside-down US plate although I do not think a federal would have gotten away with it where a Confederate might have. ;) :)


Curt

On page 60 of the May 2007 issue of America's Civil War, there is a photo of Medal of Honor recipient Daniel P. Reigle, 87th PA. Interestingly, he is wearing his US belt upside down. The source provided for the photo is Gettysburg National Military Park.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

Hallo!

Alas, I don't have the picture to see... but is the lens image perhaps "flopped" and he wearing his accoutrements "reversed" to (try to) appear right in the picture?

Curt

[markj]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

I was wandering if anyone knows of a confederate soldier wearing a US buckle upside down. I've noticed that at a few reenactments that some johnny rebs were wearing their US buckles upside down. How authentic is that?

"Exhibit A" (see attachment). This is a more detailed view of the same image shown above, which came out of the collection of the late Herb Peck, Jr. The photo was originally posted on the back of an issue of "Civil War Times" sometime in the 70's or 80's (I can find out the precise issue upon request).

I'm inclined to think the "Tennessee" ID is likely closer to the mark than Mississippi as I've found written descriptions of Tennessee POWs, captured at Fort Donelson, whose uniforms closely match the duds worn by the man in the image below.

Very truly yours, &c.,

Mark Jaeger

[Matthew.Rector]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

Hallo!

Alas, I don't have the picture to see... but is the lens image perhaps "flopped" and he wearing his accoutrements "reversed" to (try to) appear right in the picture?

Curt

No, that isn't the case in this photograph. It appears just like the Confederate's belt plate in Herr Jaeger's post above.

[markj]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

Things get even more interesting. Attached below is an image in my personal collection. Pay no mind to the "NCConfed" file name as my research indicates the young man (who probably isn't older than 18 or so) in the ferrotype is most probably a Pennsylvania (i.e., Federal) cavalryman. Please note the image has been significantly cleaned up by my brother, who is a professonal graphic artiste.

Needless to say, the precise reason why this individual is wearing an upside-down buckle has been lost to history. However, we can quite reasonably speculate that the young man's entire rig may well have been loaned by the photographer for use at the sitting. Also check out the width of the waist belt: it appears to be quite narrow and, in fact, might even be a civilian belt pressed into service.

Enjoy,

Mark Jaeger

[Pritchett Ball]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

Private W. J. Coker, Co. B, 3rd Tennessee Infantry. U.S. buckle worn in normal fashion. Must not have made a whole lot difference to him, just so it worked!

Kevin Dally

[Goat]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

I love how he wrote his name on his box belt. Wanted to be sure everyone knew who they were dealing with!

Great Image

Rob Willis

[Matthew.Rector]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

I recently came across a story* about a Union spy published about forty years after the war. In his narrative he describes an incident that occurred during the battle of Hanover Court House, VA. Wearing a Confederate jacket, he finds himself in the path of Confederate wounded and others retreating, he picks up several items to better blend in. At a later opportunity he went into the woods and fell asleep.

Page 225.

At daylight I was awake. I ate some bacon and hoecake which I found in the haversack; while doing this, I took a good look at my gun and accoutrements. The rifle was a long Enfield with three bands; the cartridge-box and cap-box were slung to a single waist-belt, the scabbard for the bayonet also, but there was no bayonet. The brass plate on the lid of the cartridge-box was a U.S. plate; the belt-buckle also was Federal; both plate and buckle had been turned upside down, so that each bore the inverted letters S N. There were a few cartridges in the box-such cartridges as I had not seen before. I found that the rifle was not loaded, and I allowed it to remain empty.

*
"Who Goes There? The Story of a Spy in the Civil War" By B.K. Benson
New York: The MacMillan Company, 1902.

[Todd Watts]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

Interesting. So it appears that the act of turning the buckles and plates was indeed done commonly enough to have been noticed both on film and eyewitness accounts, but still not done all the time by all soldiers stuck with US brass. I wonder what the rounds the spy saw were? He seemed to have been confused about what they were, and since it was written much later, seems to have never really learned what those things were.

[Bill Fean]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

Not trying to beat this horse anymore but here is a quote from a Connecticut Lieutenant A.W. Peck. Peck is talking about the aftermath of the fight on Cemetery Hill, Gettysburg. " I also saw a large dead reb who had a straw hat on; his sleeves were rolled up. He had no coat on, he wore a U.S. belt with the U.S. plate turned upside down."

Like others said, there is evidence of it being done. It's just to what extent.

Resepectfully

Bill Fean

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

OK, found the picture of the belt In LonKeim's book Confederate General accouterment Plates page 297. To my surprise is an image in the upper right that depicts an unidentified Confederate wearing a nice early war jacket or "battleshirt". I believe he is a Missisipian, anyways he is wearing on inverted US buckle. I will try to post the image here I am no computer expert, I live in the 19th Century!


The Mad Mick!!!

ps I was wrong the webbing belt belongs to a R L Ward not Tyler of Texas!!!

Hi Jeremy

Goos picture and reffrence.

I made a copy of this belt for myself several years ago.

As far as the use of US Plates for CS use. Steve Mulinax's book on Cs Plates has great examples of converted US to CS Plates and Plates that were modified from Box plate (by cliping off the iron loops ), then soldering on to the back , into the lead, 3 Iron hooks.

Another I have noticed is like the on eon R L Wards Belt with some of the lead melted out of the plate and scrap brass or iron hooks solderd in.

With the CSA so straped for metal on an off durring its existance. Combined with the early victories of the war. It makes sence that the CS Army would gather up the large amounts of battle refuse (Cast off equipment, particularily the metal object), send them to the Depots for repair and reissue. Or in the case of metals such as brass and lead, both of which are needed in huge quantities for war in the use of bullets and sabbots for cannon shells & other items. I makes sence that the plates would be modified and re issued. The dug examples definately lean toward the theory, although there are plenty of other plates and buckles that were used by the CSA.

The modified US plate is just one of the manny differnt plates used by the CSA.

Hope this helps

All the best

Don S

[Rob Weaver]

Re: wearing US buckles upside down

Not trying to beat this horse anymore but here is a quote from a Connecticut Lieutenant A.W. Peck. Peck is talking about the aftermath of the fight on Cemetery Hill, Gettysburg. " I also saw a large dead reb who had a straw hat on; his sleeves were rolled up. He had no coat on, he wore a U.S. belt with the U.S. plate turned upside down."

What a farb - wearing a straw hat!