Corp badges

[kemper_rifles]

14th Corps badge

Greetings, comrades. I am wondering if anyone has had a chance to examine any extant 14th Corps badges, the acorn, particularly a blue 3rd division badge. I've been looking around and have only found pictures that have two seperate colors. Basically what I am wondering is if the originals are all one color or would the top part be a certain color and the bottom part change according to division. Any help or leads would be greatly pre-shated.

[msmjr]

Re: 14th Corps badge

Funny you should mention this...I recently pursued this very matter. The man with whom you need to speak - as I did - is Mr. BJ Zirkle. He just made me an "acorn" for my use in replicating something my ancestor likely had.

Contact him via e-mail at GiltWire(AT)aol.com [replace "(AT)" with the "@" so we can save him from some spam.] Great guy and he grants quick replies to e-mails!

Regards, hope this helps-
-Mike Montgomery

[kemper_rifles]

Re: 14th Corps badge

Funny you should mention this...I recently pursued this very matter. The man with whom you need to speak - as I did - is Mr. BJ Zirkle. He just made me an "acorn" for my use in replicating something my ancestor likely had.

Contact him via e-mail at GiltWire(AT)aol.com [replace "(AT)" with the "@" so we can save him from some spam.] Great guy and he grants quick replies to e-mails!

Regards, hope this helps-
-Mike Montgomery

I searched through the previous postings for info on corps badges and found the discussion about who makes repros. I did email BJ Thursday, but haven't got a response yet. Maybe he is away. I'll keep trying.

[markj]

Re: 14th Corps badge

Hi Kenny,

I presume you are referring to something like what's on this website?

http://www2.powercom.net/~rokats/corps2.html

There are undoubtedly folks much more knowledgeable than I on the subject of corps badges but, for the life of me, I can't remember once seeing a documented wartime 14th Army Corps badge that incorporated any of the official colors used to designate specific divisions. I'm not saying they weren't produced or worn, but I've just never come across them in all my reading and research.

From 1863 onward, periodicals like "Harper's Illustrated Weekly" frequently carried illustrated ads by one or more firms that specialized in making personally engraved corps badges--but they were generally made out of silver and there is no indication additional colors were incorporated into the design.

I've done quite a bit of research on the 10th Indiana Volunteer Infantry (2nd and 3rd Divisions, 14th A. C.) but don't ever remember seeing any references to wear of corps badges by its troops until long after the war. This isn't too surprising since the 14th A. C. "acorn" device was not officially adopted until 26 April 1864 and the 10th IVI mustered out the following September. Interestingly, the grave marker of 10th IVI Colonel Wm. B. Carroll (Mortally wounded at Chickamauga, 19 Sep 63) does incorporate the acorn device--it was erected circa 1868. The official regimental badge of the 10th IVI Veterans Association, adopted around 1881, also incorporates the "acorn" but, again, I don't recall seeing specific divisional color(s) used.

Perhaps some other, more knowlegeable soul out there in "AC Forum-Land" will provide additional insight into your question.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Charles Heath]

Re: 14th Corps badge

About five years ago, I saw a poorly made red acorn corps badge on a forage cap both of which were being passed off as original, but the lack of documentation, and the reputation of the individual who had it in his possession left much in doubt.

For those who don't know the story behind the choice of the acorn, this tidbit is from the 42nd Indiana Inf. website:

"The 14th Army Corps' badge was the acorn. According to Billings,

'Tradition has it that some time before the adoption of this badge the members of this corps called themselves Acorn Boys, because at one time in their history, probably when they were hemmed in at Chattanooga by Bragg, rations were so scanty that the men gladly gathered large quantities of acorns from an oak grove, near by which they were camped, and roasted and ate them, repeating this operation while the scarcity of food continued. When it became necessary to select a corps badge, the acorn suggested itself as an exceedingly appropriate emblem, and it was therefore adopted by General Orders No. 62, issued from HQ Department of the Cumberland, at Chattanooga, April 26, 1864."

It's often interesting to have a little background, even if it does not precisely answer the question at hand.

Charles Heath

[ScottCross]

Re: 14th Corps badge

General orders were issued by the Army of the Cumberland in April 1864 requiring all individuals to wear corps badges in the SINGLE color of their division (Its in the ORs, but I cant tell you the order number, volume, and page off the top of my head). Now, how much that order was enforced is difficult to say, since so few felt corp badges have survived, especially the 14th corps. I don't know if I've ever seen an original, found a reference, or an image of an individual wearing one. The 20th Corps certainly observed the regulations and I've seen numerous images and original examples of these. The only 14th Corps badges that I can recall seeing are the sutler store variety, etc.

[Charles Heath]

Re: 4th Division Corps Badge Colors

"The true color of the coat is stunning in that it's so dark yet so strongly green when it's in the sun; it shines but remains nearly black so it's pretty strange."

At least one variety of repop cloth is much the same way. Thanks to Brian Koenig aka "Jefferson Guards," I recieved a swatch of a dark green (very) cloth of this nature in the mail yesterday. Wow! Inside the house, it is almost black, but outside it does indeed have a green cast to it. It's darker than a Hunter Green, and not even as bright as a Floquil Weyerhauser Green. This is going to be a tough dye to match, and it will probably end up being a little greener than the fabric in hand.

Again, thanks for the sample!

Charles Heath

[Ringgold]

Re: 4th Division Corps Badge Colors

This thread certainly has swung into a strange (but interesting) direction! I suppose I should be glad that my badge didn't match John Deere Green (close, but a little too green), as I'd hate to see where THAT color chip would have sent this discussion.

Ever in wonderment,

[Charles Heath]

Re: 4th Division Corps Badge Colors

Mark,

Hey, now, even Farmall Red would have been much easier, but easy isn't always right. :wink_smil

It's another "what's right" vs "what's available" tradeoff, and the subject of natural and analine green dye or fabric usually broaches a number of topics anytime it is mentioned.

Charles Heath

[markj]

Interesting badges

Greetings,

I noticed some interesting badges worn by the individuals in the attached images (both extracted from the same photograph). Anyone care to hazard a guess as to what they signify? I would presume the one worn by the man on the top left may be some kind of corps designator.

The bottom individual is also wearing an interesting rimless cap. Probably a camp, or lounging, cap of some sort.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[hardtack1864]

Re: Interesting badges

I have see quite a few of those on many Union soldiers, they seem to be I.D. badges, some sort of bagde for the unit, as seen in EOG, Corps badges, or something along that line, though I'm not sure which one of these it could be. Just depeneds when the photo was taken, because then it would rule out corps badge.

[rogue]

Re: Interesting hat

Mark,
Attached is a photo or two of a cap that turned up in the estate sale of the great-grandson of an Illinois artillery officer. Hand sewn dark blue broadcloth with red trim and brown polished cotton interior. Camp hat?
Steve Sullivan
46th Illinois
Co. Mil. Hist.

[markj]

Re: Interesting badges

Hi Steve,

Hard to say. It could well be a "camp hat" but it could just as easily be a "lounging" or "smoking" cap of the sort that remained popular into the early 20th Century. The cap could even be European--it's really difficult to determine what it is without knowing more about the provenance of the piece. It does seem to be in remarkably good condition for its alleged age!

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[adamandnicole]

heel cleats

Does anyone know much about the "heel cleats" that are pictured in Lord's Encyclopedia? It is the only place that I've seen originals, although I did see a repro set over the weekend. These cover the entire heel and the ones pictured in Lord's have a corps emblem cut out in the middle. They are very interesting looking and definently not over represented like their "horseshoe" cousins.

Thanks,

Adam Dickerson

[adamandnicole]

Re: heel cleats

Has anyone ever even seen these items?

Adam Dickerson