Engravings on the rifle stock

[Parault]

I am trying to do research into engravings on the rifles. I have seen in a few museums the rifles with engravings in the stock, unfortunately I cannot remember which ones it was. Would it have been things like names or initals? I have been toying with the idea of doing that to my Einfield. What about my Springfield? How popular was it to do some type of marking of that rifle. Would the Federal Soldier do that to his issued musket?
Now to add to this. If it was done would a Dremmel tool with a fine bit work? How deep? And,what would I treat the stock with after marking it?
The flip side to this is, it would not be as easy to have it just picked up ( not saying I don't watch or take care of my rifles ) but it would diminish the prospect of thievrey.

[1986jjack]

Re: Engravings on the rifle stock

I own an original Burnsides carbine that has some carving on the stock. It has "WVI" carved rather deeply (probably 2 mm or so) in 1 inch high letters on the cheek of the stock and also (in much lighter strokes)"No. 59" . The gun was passed down from West Va. relatives. The wvi is in block lettering while the No. 59 was more stylized. I don't know much about the history of the gun but there is a shot fouling the barrel reputedly from the war. John Jackson

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Engravings on the rifle stock

Please don't. There are no doubt examples of ordnance and ordnance stores marked by the soldier that used them, but some of those markings are post-war and all would be in violation of the regs. Technically speaking, no ordnance is issued to the soldier -- it is entrusted to his care but remains the property of the company commander who receipted for it. Soldiers did deface ordnance, but they could expect to be fined for the offense. If you must mark your piece for security reasons, you can put identifying information on the stock beneath the butt plate.

[mightyreb]

Re: Engravings on the rifle stock

There are known instances of soldiers "carving" up their rifles but this was few & far between i think, Mr schaffner also makes a good point, when in doubt follow the regs. i think you should really think about it, you may find you don't like it so much afterwards and by then it's to late..kinda like a tattoo for your musket..
steve hutton

[Parault]

Re: Engravings on the rifle stock

Thank You for that valuable information. I am glad I found out before I messed something up. I will mark my weapons,but, it will be under the barrel on the wood. I had been told not to take the butt plate off for any reason, it will strip out the threads. Thanks again.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Engravings on the rifle stock

Hallo!

A complicated subject area, this... ;)

1. Yes, the weapon was not the soldiers to mark up. However, "regs" and practices sometimes vary.

2. Looking at surviving originals, it can be hard to know if a soldier put his name, company, or regiment on his gun in 1862 or 1882. Sometimes there might be a clue such as "C.S.A. 1861-1865." Another example is an original M1861 Springfield with a large brass infantry bugle tacked to the buttstock- done in say 1863 or 1893? (A pard saw the photo, misinterpreted it, and hand-carved a bugle into the stock and painted it with gold paint...) However, there are War-time images of marked/ID's guns as well as "brought backs."

3. Putting a name, company, or regiment on a gun limits one's future options. ESPECIALLY when one moves into the more H/A end of the alphabet where one is portraying "different men" in "different units." Or for that matter, one starts out with one's own name, and then moves on to create a personan under a different name.

4. And last but not least... in terms of "totality" the sheer numbers of unmarked guns dwarfs the marked ones.

5. Dremel tool? IMHO definitely not. Suriviving examples of marked/ID'd stocks appear to have been done with the point of a knife or in some cases possibly large needles.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt
Who once had an original Richmond carbine with two initials and a small first sergeant chevron knife-point carved into the stock

[58 lorenz]

Re: Engravings on the rifle stock

That is indeed the problem-when were initials or whatever marks put on an original rifle? I have a fair number of originals, and four of them have initials carved into the stock.My Lorenz has initials carved on the stock in such a manner that they are "right side up", and at the proper angle to be easily readable when the rifle is stacked with others. But again,who can say when this was done?

BTW, I don't think unscrewing the buttplate is going to lead to stripping the screw holes in the stock-I've taken mine off many times, on originals and repos,and never had a problem. When working on firearms, though, make sure you have good screwdrivers that fit the screw slots correctly-nothing spoils the look of a gun like buggered-up slots on all the screw heads.

Doug Price

[Jimmayo]

Re: Engravings on the rifle stock

I totally agree with Curt and Doug and there are some goods words to consider. I would like to add that IMO you see slightly more CS guns with some sort of intials or marking than US. I marked my 61 Springfield with my intials to keep from grabbing the wrong one. It has worked so far.

I have some examples of what I consider "war time" markings on this web page.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/scabbard.html

[Secesh]

Re: Engravings on the rifle stock

Hello,,.... should you ever plan to sell your rifle for any reason you better be prepared to find someone with the same initials as your's. Lastly, why would you want to do that? To stand out in the crowd?? Best regards.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Engravings on the rifle stock

I had been told not to take the butt plate off for any reason, it will strip out the threads.

Feel free to find the idiot who told you this and buttstroke them at your earliest possible convenience. :)

[Jimmayo]

Re: Engravings on the rifle stock

Hello,,.... should you ever plan to sell your rifle for any reason you better be prepared to find someone with the same initials as your's.

Didn't slow up the sale of my first Enfield. Walked around the 125th GB with a "forsale" flag on a stick sticking out of the barrel. Sold it before I got to the end of sutler row. I have seen several originals at shows with more than one name carved on the stock. One had the records of the original soldier that had been killed. The other named person ended up with it. Bottom line is selling a musket with initials is no problem especially now that the prices have gone up recently.

Lastly, why would you want to do that? .

Ever try to find your musket in a stack of 5 or 6 that look just like yours when someone is yelling at you to fall in? Also, a marked musket helps to locate the correct stack. There was a recent post of an event about a year ago where several muskets went home with the wrong owners. They were all M-1842 models that looked just alike and had been mixed up when breaking the stack.

FYI Below is an example of a post war corps badge marking. After seeing this one, a friend of mine made a brass trefoil and tacked it rather neatly to the stock of his M63 Navy Arms. He never had any problem finding his rifle in a stack and had many offers to buy that rifle before he finally decided to sell it.

[Rob Weaver]

Re: Engravings on the rifle stock

Inspired by the broken end of Wesley Culp's musket, with the carved marking "W. Culp," I carved my initial and last name, "R. Weaver," in the stock of my 63 Springfield about 20 years ago. I used my penknife. I've never seen anyone else do this. I did it to be able to find my musket in any number of situations: stacked arms, lying where I threw it away deserting, etc. If you're going to do it, do it well. I used the penknife in my pocket, and did it during downtime at an event.

[rogue]

Re: Engravings on the rifle stock

To add one more log to the fire, pictured below is a butt stock on a nice model 1842 smoothbore that turned up in northeast Wisconsin this past winter. The musket had been mounted on the wall in a bar, and after uncounted years was covered in soot and cigarette smoke. When the bar closed a patron bought the weapon and started refinishing the stock, and only then noticed the crud filled carving.
"J.C.
Co. E.
5th Wisc. Vol"
No one fits these initials from Company E of the 5th exactly, but there are three close candidates. The carving was done many years ago, perhaps war-time.
The second photo is somewhat off-topic, but still neat. This is a stock from a Sharps rifle that was inlaid with Corps badges, several now missing. A Civil War dealer in Tennessee has a similar Sharps on his for sale list, for many, many thousands, that has identical inlay work. His Sharps has been traced to the 4th US Veteran Volunteers. Alas, I own but the wood shown here, and no history at all.
Steve Sullivan
CWPT
Co. Mil. Hist.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Engravings on the rifle stock

Hallo!

Just a passing aside...

Of course, devining a CW soldier's intent, or determining when a "commemoration/identification" was actually applied can be next to, or impossible unless the gun appears in a dated or provenanced War-time image (I have one or two such somewhere around here)...

But if the intent was to ID a gun in a stack, why a company letter and regiment number?

Not that it is relevant to the CW experience, but I "ID" my M1842 and M1861 by the double inspectors' cartouches and their initials on the stock. (Plus my M1842 has an 1853 dated lockplate, and the M1861 has an 1862 dated lockplate.) ;) :)

Curt

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Engravings on the rifle stock

Personally, I am not a big fan of stock carving. My fear would be botching the job and wrecking a $250 walnut stock, or making my weapon stand out in a less than positive way. There are other ways to identify your musket in a stack. I know all of my weapons from across the field. The portion of the stock behind the second barrel band of my P-53 "put together" is original, not too dark in color, the way walnut finished in boiled linseed oil looked 145 years ago. It had been cut down at some point in its life to two band length and I pieced in a forestock to restore it to three band length. No one but me notices, but the grain and color of the forestock is close but not exact. I note it immediately. The soldier (or someone) faintly carved a "H" on the inside stock flat. I don't need to look very hard for that "H" to find it in the stack, though. It is usually the only P-53 in the stack faintly resembling a correctly proportioned arm. The reproductions, while some are better than others, don't quite get it just right. For another thing, when the stack is broken, the first words heard from whoever lifts up my P-53 rifle-musket is "Wow, this is sure a lot lighter in weight".

The point being, there are a variety of ways to make your weapon individually distinctive and easy to spot without chopping it up. For example, a different lock plate date than the musket came with out of the box, or better yet...fit it with an original lock plate. And so on. Here's a thought. To the extent this is possible for you, do some research and copy an original musket down to such details as whether the stock was engraved with any initials, et alia. Preferably one identified to the unit you represent. That would be an interesting project.