Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

[BrianHicks]

Has it ever happened to you, that while at the route step, you have slung your rifle, and as you are just marching along, minding your own business, when some such Officer comes up and states something like:

Unsling that rifle soldier!

or

Your not supposed to carry your rifle like that!

Well.. it has happened to me.

So... where is the reference which allows one to 'sling their rifle'?

How about this:

Casey's Infantry Tactics, Volume I.
School of the Company--Lesson VI.
Article III.
Para. 313.

...The men, without further command, will immediately carry their arms at will, as indicated in the S.S.. No. 228, or they may sling them on their backs muzzle up.

Yes sir.. there it is. Right our of the Drill Manual. they may sling them on their backs muzzle up.

This is ofcourse, only after receiving the command to march at the Route Step.

[Parault]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

Brian

My head would have exploded. Was he your Officer? I had an Officer,that wasn't even in our Battalion try to dress me down about a pvt that had a pair of Federal blue pants on. Lets just say he got a little more than he bargained for. I do not think that he will do it again to my guys. Now don't get me wrong, I will listen to my Officers and will carry out all orders given to me. But some of these people think that they are the real deal. Most wouldn't even know what an officer does if they were bitten in a#$ by one. They just like having some rank and someone to boss, cause on Monday they have to get back on the tail of their trash truck

The next time you hear that command to"unsling that rifle",just quote what you posted, and from what book,section and paragraph. Apparently that officer is one of those that thinks he is a real officer.
It would not be insulting or rude, but maybe it might make him do some studying up for himself.

[BrianHicks]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

No.. he wasn't one of or regular Officers. He had come up along the Column from the Company behind us. Obviously he was looking for something to pick on somebody about.

Besides... I have all of the Officers in the WIG a little better trained than that... ;)

Rest assured, I responded with:

With all due respect sir, the manual states: At the Route March, weapons are to be carried at Will, with muzzle up. And 'at will' means I can carry the rifle in any fashion I so desire, as long as the muzzle in pointed up, and it is carried in a safe fashion. This includes carrying it at Sling Arms

And with that, the Officer sort of just faded back along the column, without ever responding to my statement.

After all.. the Army issued me the Rifle with the Dang sling attached... therefore the Army must have intended for me to use the damned thing every now and then!

[toptimlrd]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

I've never understood the "don't sling em" unwritten rule either, but my officers have told us not to do it so I don't, I am following a lawful order from MY officers. Now if an officer wants to tell us otherwise I will simply refer them to my company commander.

[BrianHicks]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

I've never understood the "don't sling em" unwritten rule either, but my officers have told us not to do it so I don't, I am following a lawful order from MY officers. Now if an officer wants to tell us otherwise I will simply refer them to my company commander.

One must wonder if this is due to ignorance of the text in the manual.

I also understand the thought process of

If the men get used to slinging their rifles, then they might do it when on Picket duty, or at other times when it is inappropriate'

But this I think this is flawed, in that it neglects the fact that the going to Sling Arms is mentioned only when marching at the Route Step. Well... I may be incorrect on this... I seem to recall that when assigned to fatigue duty while under arms, you may be authorized to Sling Arms then as well...anybody know for sure??? Regardless.... if the Officers are training the men properly, and discipline is properly enforced, then it is a moot point as the men know when they can, and can not sling their arms.

[Silas]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

I'm aware of this reference in the 1865 Casey's, but in which earlier manual can the allowance of slinging rifles be found? Hmmmm.

That particular method works great for my 1861 Springfield when it has a sling. (Sometimes I use the sling as a belt for my trousers. Last weekend, I used it to sling my banjo on a ten mile march.) The problem is that too many folks will see that particular citation from 1865 Casey and sling their Enfields in the most comfortable manner allowed - muzzle down.

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

I'm more useless than usual right now, as I'm in a car sitting outside the crooked NBA ref's house in Florida for the Daily News, so I'm nowhere near having the books with me for reference, but...

...I believe it's my old favorite trump card, Ellsworth's Manual (heck, it might even be Kelton's Bayonet Bible), that discusses how the slinging of the rifle is an integral part of the light infantry drill = moving with speed, and not being encumbered by the weapon.

[BrianHicks]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

I'm aware of this reference in the 1865 Casey's, but in which earlier manual can the allowance of slinging rifles be found? Hmmmm.

Good question.

Take a look at the page immediately following the Title Page.

It is Dated: August 11, 1862

This page is the directive from the War Dept. which authorizes Casey's Tactics to be used.

Of note is the fact that the Preface, written by Casey, is dated January 1st, 1862.

The Repro editions most all of us have, are dated 1865, but that doesn't discount the fact that the Manuals were authorised a few years prior.

I'm interested to know if the references mentioned above by Marc Hermann do in fact also mention the slinging of arms.

[Silas]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

The problem is that what works for the Federal side does not always work for the Confederate side. The word, sling, does not appear in Gilham or Revised Hardee. The quoted language from Casey's SoC 313 is similar but does not mirror that found in Gilham at 252 or Revised Hardee's SoC at 308. Specifically, the "or they may sling them on their backs muzzle up" is not used in Gilham or Revised Hardee.

For a Confederate to say the practice is allowed because it's found in Kelton and Casey would be similar to saying a Confederate can place the butt of the rifle musket between his feet while loading because it's also found in Casey.

Gunny, I'm not disagreeing with what you've posted or with you. I'm concerned that others who do not use Casey will inappropriately sling their rifle muskets on their shoulders because they saw it mentioned by a respected person on the A/C forum. Methods which work for one impression do not necessarily work for a different impression.

I differentiate between 1862 Casey and 1865 because his SoB's are different. In addition to the nifty skirmisher text he added in the latter text - but said not to use - he also eliminated manoeuvers involving columns of companies operating at full distance. The biggest casualty is the difficult Forward Into Line involving the wheeling method. It's gone. The manoeuver still exists for columns at half distance or closed in mass where they left face instead of wheeling.

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

Brother Hicks,

"Besides... I have all of the Officers in the WIG a little better trained than that..."

A period correct "Hoozah" on that !!!

-You know SGM... I tried carring my rifle like that, It is just not...well it just don't sit right. But maybe becasue I carry an Enfiled.

[BrianHicks]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

If remember correctly, Hardee's simply states. Carry arms at will.

While this does not specifically use the verbiage, 'Sling Arms' it does however give the individual the liberty carry his weapon as he so chooses.

[john duffer]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

I'm curious now as to where the mention of the sling comes from. It's been a year or two but I've compared a great deal of Casey to Hardee page by page and there are very few differences at the company level apart from the rifle drill/musket drill thing, (breaking files is the only one that immediately jumps to mind but I know there were a couple of others). Casey himself says he's simply combining Scott & Hardee and hasn't added much below the battalion level so I'm wondering the how,who,why the sling was thought important enough to add to the manual.


"The Repro editions most all of us have, are dated 1865, but that doesn't discount the fact that the Manuals were authorised a few years prior."

I have an original "Scott's Tactics" that is an 1861 reprint, 26 years after the first edition.

[sigsaye]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

What drill manuals say or don't say not withstanding, if slings were not to be used, why were they pruchased by both governments, manufactured and installed on the weapons, including Enfields? This question is not a chalange, simply a question. If they wern't to be used, why did they exsist? Perhaps, the command "Arms At Will" was sufficent to imply "Sling Arms". I no longer have and drill manuals (don't reenact any more, just Naval Living History), but didn't you have to be at "Rout Step" to go to "Arms At Will"? If this was the case, then giving "Arms At Will"/"Sling Arms" after "Rout Step" would have been redundant.

Trying to recall my 20th century drill from more years back than I care to remember, I think "Sling Arms" was a commamd given to shift the weapon while remaining in step. I.E. remaining in step to the cadence while carrying the weapon by the sling, with the right hand grasping the sling. I know this probebly has nothing to do with any thing, but perhap[s we are trying to look too hard at something that wasn't that big of a deal at the time.

Sort of like the fact that during my time in the Navy, I wore at least three different types of issue socks. Never thought about it or documented it since they were just socks.

The Navy went to great lengths to instal slings on their weapons, even to the extent of installing regular rifle sling swivels on Cavelry carbines. But, this makes sense when considering armed Sailors climbing down the sides of ships, in and out of boats and needing their hands free.

Steve Hesson

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

Even if you were not able to find the reference in a drill manual--the presence of which may not mean that's how it was actually done--the fact that soldiers on the march tended to sling their guns is supported by numerous photographs and drawings of the period. That, to me, is even better evidence supporting "slinging" by reenactors than the drill manual citation.

[Silas]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

I jumped into this drill manual discussion for several reasons.

I really don't care about slings. I agree that not everyone conformed to every detail in the manuals. The absence of a specific instruction about slinging arms doesn't mean folks cannot use the sling. Slings exist as a nice alternative on a long march when the other methods of carrying the musket get old. Eventually, the sling gets old, too.

There is a great misperception in the hobby about what one manual says verses another. I hear it frequently said that "we use Casey's, so I don't know how your manual says to do X." The overwhelming majority of the text concerning manoeuvers is pretty much identical from one manual to the other. The largest variance comes from how to handle weapons.

When a reenactor is off on one aspect of his drill and/or impression, it's likely not a big deal. However, when item after item after item becomes stacked atop other incorrect aspects of drill and/or impression, then it gets like the old game of h-o-r-s-e. Only the game in reenacting is called f-a-r-b.

Serious reenacting is all about time, place and manner. What works in portraying a soldier on one side - or even regiment - at one location and time does not necessarily work for that same soldier at a different time or location. Some reenactors latch onto things which are perfectly appropriate for one impression, but refuse to let go of them for other impressions where the thing is inappropriate. To me, the appropriate manual is just as important as the appropriate gear. Sometimes Casey and Federal trousers are just fine. Other times, not.