Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

[john duffer]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

I couldn't find much on this so far. ELLSWORTH has:

To Sling Arms.* (* This manner of carrying them will be found very convenient on long marches.)

101 Right Shoulder Sling--ARMS.

One time and three motions.

260. (First motion.) Carry the piece to the front, grasp it with the left hand a little above the tail band; re-seize it with the right at the tail band; grasp the strap with the left hand and hold it opposite the left shoulder; barrel of the piece to the right.
261. (Second motion.) Disengage the right hand, pass it quickly between the piece and strap; carry the left hand, which supports the piece by the strap, to the right shoulder, slinging the piece around benind the shoulder; sieze the small of the stock with the right hand.
262. (Third motion.) Drop the left hand by the side.

There's also a left shoulder sling and going back to shoulder from the slings. This is circa late 1859 and was essentially a manual for drill competitions. Ellsworth took common movements and gave them more flair and regularity so his men would look snappy doing them. I couldn't find anything that mentioned slinging while on the march or acting as skirmishers. Looking through several manuals I did notice the muzzle up theme repeated and wondered if we place the wrong weight here, maybe the point in Casey is not that you can sling arms but a reminder that they must be slung barrel up.

[BrianHicks]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

.....Looking through several manuals I did notice the muzzle up theme repeated and wondered if we place the wrong weight here, maybe the point in Casey is not that you can sling arms but a reminder that they must be slung barrel up.

Wow... do you mean that they really understood the principle of safety way beck then?

Hmmm... who would of thought it!?!?!?! Perhaps some things in the military really haven't changed so much in the intervening years.

(Yes... I was being sarcastice.....)

But too be serious now....

As provided in an earlier post, the text of the manual clearly emphasizes the Muzzle Up theme:

they may sling them on their backs muzzle up.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

You can't imagine how happy I am to see this hasn't veered into the land of "if they'd had it, they'd used it." Thanks for keeping it real.

[BrianHicks]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

But... they did have 'em... and by gosh... they did use 'em!:D

[Hargis, G. 5 A-1]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

Well sure it’s muzzle up.
Spares you the embarrassment of the ramrod that’s supposed to firmly stay in its channel slithering out of an inverted piece.
But that’s not as bad as the ball working its way muzzleward (in a muzzle-down carry) if it moves enough to act as an obstruction rather than a projectile when fired. A spectacularly unfortunate event.
Best regards all

[Silas]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

Here is one last bit of details from the manuals. The below text is from Gilham and is identical to paragraphs 206-08 of SoC Revised Hardee :

[G] 252. [HC 306 / CC 311] The swiftness of the route step will be 110 steps in a minute ; this swiftness will be habitually maintained in column in route, when the roads and ground may permit.

The company being at a halt, and supposed to constitute a subdivision of a column, when the instructor shall wish to cause it to march in the route step, he will command :

1. Column, forward. 2. Guide, left (or right). 3. Route step. 4. MARCH.

At the command, march, repeated by the captain, the two ranks will step off together ; the rear rank will take, in marching, by shortening a few steps, a distance of one pace (twenty-eight inches) from the rank preceding, which distance will be computed from the breasts of the men in the rear rank, to the knapsacks of the men in the front rank. The men, without further command, will immediately carry their arms at will, as indicated in the school of the soldier. They will no longer be required to march in the cadenced pace, or with the same foot, or to remain silent. The files will march at ease ; but care will be taken to prevent the ranks from intermixing, the front rank from getting in advance of the guide, and the rear rank from opening to too great a distance.

As much as I prefer to carry Gilham's manual over other period manuals in the field, he took a few shortcuts in creating his manual. One of them was his decision not to include references to specific paragraphs in prior or subsequent paragraphs. Thankfully, Hardee and Casey were kind enough to include a phrase more than, "as indicated in the school of the XXX." They indicate the school and paragraph where something is mentioned.

But returning to Gilham, here are the next two featured paragraphs from the school of the soldier. None of this has been cited yet. The first citation is to the musket manual :

Arms - AT WILL.

One time and one motion.
[G] 137. Carry the piece at pleasure on either shoulder, or with one or both hands, the muzzle always up.

"The muzzle always up" makes it pretty clear which direction the barrel should be pointed. The next citation is to Gilham's rifle manual. Said text is identical to paragraph 228 of Casey SoS and 219 of Revised Hardee SoS 219 :

Arms - AT WILL.

One time and one motion.
[G] 180. [CS 228 / HS 219] At this command, carry the piece at pleasure on either shoulder, with one or both hands, the muzzle elevated.

Neither the musket or rifle manuals include a specific allowance for slinging the weapon. Implied, yes, as "on either shoulder" could include slinging the weapon on a shoulder. Casey may not have thought it was sufficiently stated. That is my guess why Casey included the extra phrase in his SoC. It amounts to a formal authorization for what soldiers were likely doing already.

[ThehosGendar]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

Hi everyone!

I know this thread has been languishing in the back rooms for a little while, so I hope you don't mind if I bring it back to the fore. I haven't been around alot, as "real life" has reared its head, and I've been spending nearly every waking moment in the desperate pursuit of getting a teaching job, and volunteering/job hunting with the National Park Service. In an attempt to save my sanity, I should start doing things I like again... like seeing friends and posting on places I enjoy!

So... on to this!

I really think that everyone who has actually put time and effort into researching their impression should carry around a little notebook/binder somewhere to whip out whenever some snarky person makes some windbag claim about something never being done, or saying that you can't do what you're doing because they never did it. Have the photos documenting it in your little binder to shut them up. Seriously... yeesh.

And if they never slung arms, these fellows on Henry House Hill were never told, although I'm sure that cranky officer that accosted Mr. Hicks would have loved to have dug his farby fangs into them.

[From LC-DIG-cwpb-00972, "Bull Run, Va. Ruins of Mrs. Judith Henry's house."]

[BrianHicks]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

Outstanding!

Thanks for sharing those pictures.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

Hallo!

Hey!
Some tell that lad in the middle... the eagle goes on the side and the bugle goes on the front of the hat! ;) :) :)

Curt

[john duffer]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

It's pretty obvious that muzzle up is for safety but I also found a citation that makes the statement in L'ORDONNANCE DU ROI 1831, under remarks on school of the company.


"338. Lorsqu’on marchera au pas de route, le soldat portera son arme de la manière qu’il trouvera le plus commode, ayant seulement attention que le bout de fusil suit assez élevé, pour prévenir les accidens."

When marching at the route step the soldier carries his arm in the manner most comfortable, only paying attention to keep the muzzle up to prevent accidents.

[Rob Weaver]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

There was an old position of carrying the musket on the left shoulder with the barrel down, butt in the air. It was called "clubbing." It appears in drill manuals in the first half of the 18th century, through the French and Indian War, then disappears from the 1764 Drill, all the militia manuals and Steuben. It is a very comfortable way to carry musket, especially the fairly heavy stocked 18th century arms. It is also, if you're not careful, a good way to bash the brains out of the guy marching behind you, or the men on either side should you turn to talk to them. On the whole, I can see why it fell out of favor as marching columns became more disciplined. Perhaps the muzzle up reminders in the drill manuals are so that the instructions aren't misinterpreted as a return to this archaic practice.

[Phil McBride]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

A lot of very interesting mesages posted above. My addition is that at Banks Grand Retreat, where I was a short private carrying an Enfield for four days of trekking through the piney woods, up hill and down, I learned that an Enfield is much more comfortably carried, loaded indeed with paper holding in the powder, in a butt-up position. This has to do with the sling of the Enfield being hung from the top barrel band, not the middle barrel band. That makes a huge difference to us short guys, otherwise the butt of the Enfield is banging around and against our ankles, and the weight of the weapon is dangling way too low.
But back to the event, during the three days ( I carried it right side up the first day before figuring out the obvious) of the butt-up slinged carry, no officer or the Sergeant-Major or other NCO corrected me. Just as well, as I probably would have snarled at them and ignored their "suggestion" to turn the weapon the other way. When you are out for 4 days hoofing it in full gear for 20 miles of trail, the theory takes a distant second to what works most comfortably.

Phil McBride
The Alamo Rifles

[Rob Weaver]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

I've been known to club my Springfield, too. Fortunately, as a Sergeant, there's nobody marching behind me. It is a pretty comfortable way to carry the musket - the balance is very good.

[Rob Murray]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

Just as well, as I probably would have snarled at them and ignored their "suggestion" to turn the weapon the other way. When you are out for 4 days hoofing it in full gear for 20 miles of trail, the theory takes a distant second to what works most comfortably.

Phil, I don't know you and I don't want to start a fight, but as an "Authentic" or "Hard Core" why would you refuse a direct order from a superior?
I was also at BGR as a federal company commander. I was ordered to do things I didn't want to do. Did they affect me? No. They affected my company. Did they want to do it? No. Did they? Yes they did, though they didn't like it.
My feelings are, if you're going to play the game, play by the rules.

[Phil McBride]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

Rob,

You're right. I suppose I was exaggerating to make the point that for three days during the BGR marching, no one seemed to mind my carrying my slung Enflied barrel down. If my Captain, Lt., Sgt or Cpl or a battalion officer had directed me to carry my Enfield butt down for the safety sake, I've no doubt I would have done so. I also believe our hobby is best served by playing by rules, especially safety-focused rules. (Which in turn raises an interesting safety question of the wisdom of our being directed to ram paper over the powder during BGR. Without paper in the barrel, I couldn't have carried the Enfield inverted on the march.)

Phil McBride