Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

[Rob Murray]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

Phil, Sending you a PM.

[H. L. Hanger]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

Related Question: Was it more or less common to carry a loaded weapon on the march? Of course, it depends on the proximity of the enemy and possibility of immediate combat.

Just curious.

J

[Rob Weaver]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

Guns weren't carried loaded because there are only 2 ways to unload them. The easy way, which is nevertheless loud and dangerous, and the hard way which is slow and difficult. (Firing or pulling the ball.) Either way it's a waste of resources.) Your flankers should tell you if there is enemy about, and it only takes 20 seconds to load. Hunters loaded their guns and put them over the door at home, and shot them as they returned. Reference the "heard his gun at the end of the day" kind of talk.

[RJSamp]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

Just got done reading a book on Wisconsin soldiers.....a comment was made about firing their weapons to clear them when they returned from Picket Duty.

[Rob]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

"A sad accident occurred while the company was at Fairfax. It was on a pleasant day, October 30th. The boys were at platoon drill when they were interrupted and returned to camp. One of their comrades had been shot. His name was Henry Richardson, who being detailed on fatigue duty was at work arranging for a hospital tent. A detail from the 26th Wisconsin regiment had discharged their guns into an embankment a half mile distant and in line with the 157th. A stray ball went over the bank and struck Richardson in the head, killing him instantly... In the language of one of the boys, 'It was bad enough to be shot at by rebels,' without additional risks from the rifles of their friends."

Barlow, Albert Rowe. Company G: A Record of the Services of One Company of the 157th N.Y. Vols. in the War of the Rebellion from Sept. 19, 1862 to July 10, 1865.

[john duffer]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

I ran across this last night in Viele's "HANDBOOK FOR ACTIVE SERVICE", 1861

page 50 while talking about the route step:

"...The soldiers now carry their arms in any manner most convenient. Some sling them over their shoulder, (most of them, indeed, prefer this mode as the least fatiguing,)...."

I repeat my theory that Casey's was simply reminding us about muzzle up while slinging and not mentioning slinging itself as something new or unusual.

[Silas]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

Hey!
Some tell that lad in the middle... the eagle goes on the side and the bugle goes on the front of the hat!

Curt, that's an example of the Old Army fit. The hat was too big, so he turned it sideways. With the narrow sides now in front and rear, the hat stayed on his head. Eventually, the hat will conform to the size of the head or become too large again. If too large, repeat the turning process.

[markj]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

Just got done reading a book on Wisconsin soldiers.....a comment was made about firing their weapons to clear them when they returned from Picket Duty.

Yeah, this policy is mentioned all the time in regimental order books. However Braxton Bragg was so concerned about wastage of valuable rounds he directed, to the maximum extent possible, that pickets were to henceforth pull out rounds and recycle the powder, which would, in turn, be handed over to Ordnance Sergeants.

I'd have to look in my notes, but I believe this order was issued in early 1863--I found it in a regimental order book connected with Brown's/Palmer's Brigade.

Yours, &c.,

Mark Jaeger

[BrianHicks]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

I ran across this last night in Viele's "HANDBOOK FOR ACTIVE SERVICE", 1861

page 50 while talking about the route step:

"...The soldiers now carry their arms in any manner most convenient. Some sling them over their shoulder, (most of them, indeed, prefer this mode as the least fatiguing,)...."

I repeat my theory that Casey's was simply reminding us about muzzle up while slinging and not mentioning slinging itself as something new or unusual.

Great Find!.... it goes far to support my original post.

Thanks

[orngblsm]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

I've been on the march and have had officers tell me not to sling my musket, just as I've been on the march and seen officers not care a bit. There is no denying that "slinging" is in the manual(at least Casey's). I've always taken the firm stance that the guy with the stripes is in charge, even if he's proven that he's un-knowledgable. If for whatever reason he doesn't want me to sling my musket it doesn't matter. I've often reflected, instead of getting pissed off, on how a commander not thorough in the manual is probably more authentic than we realize or give credit to. I know that out of 1000 men who left orange county with the 124th NY only 6 had prior military experience, and none of those 6 were commanding a company. As they learned I know that a lot of them developed quirks and what not about military techniques, that did inevitably piss off the soldiers under them. My point is that this forum is the perfect place to bitch about all of the inadequacies of the hobby, but the field isn't. I hate nothing more than enlisted men arguing with commissioned officers.

[Spewy]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

I could not agree more! Having been on both sides of the issue the only thing more frustrating than an Officer who doesn't know what he is doing is the guy in the ranks who has to argue with him. That would not have been tolerated and the offending Soldier would have caught the flat side of the blade. Argue off the feild if you want but otherwise "Quiet in the Ranks"!

[john duffer]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

I'll play Devil's advocate here, I totally agree that there should be no agruments between rank and file and officer but it's up to the officer to not create the situation. In the case young Mr. Hicks first mentioned I believe the officer wrong and were he junior to me would have had a word with him (in private of course, you can't undermine him in front of the men.) What did he do wrong ?

Except in unusual situations the officer doesn't need to be supervising individual soldiers, he uses the chain of command. If he's appalled at men slinging arms at route step he makes that fact known to the 1st sergeant. To challenge the man directly demeans him and pushes him to respond.

I know there were plenty of officers, especially early war, who didn't know their craft but I think there's no excuse for it and certainly none in our world. Becoming a good pretend officer is studying as real officers did, this is far more important than where can I find a sword,etc. A good (pretend) volunteer officer should be studying constantly, the different manuals available to him, especially Scott's TACTICS and Hardees, the numerous "how to" handbooks (I've run across about 50% of Kautz word for word in earlier works) Jomini, Macdougall's THEORY OF WAR, etc, and bugle calls.

If you want the men to respect you don't act like a buffoon. There's no God-given right to command, it's simple, if you fear a private throwing Paragraph 105, Page 50 at you, then make sure you know more than him.

[Pvt Peck]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

"There's no God given right to command" Truer words have not been spoken , bully for you Mr. Duffer!

[Dan Munson]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

This has been an informative and generally useful thread. But...

For those having occasion to tote an Enfield, it does leave a question unanswered: how to "sling" the cussed thing "with the muzzle up." Even if slung across the back (as in the photos posted above in this thread), the Enfield is awkwardly positioned. I can only conclude, from the arrangement of the sling swivels, that the British must have intended the weapon to be slung muzzle down. In American service, this could run afoul of the prescriptions of the manuals.

Has anyone seen any info on the method of slinging of Enfields by the soldiers who carried them? (For instance, I have always wondered if any reference exists to soldiers moving the forward sling swivel down to the middle barrel band, a la the Sprinfield? I haven't seen such a reference, so I haven't done it...but I have wondered.)

[Poor Private]

Re: Carrying The Rifle At Sling Arms

I have carried my enfield both ways at sling arms, and yes it's tons more comfortable with the muzzle down. Is there any explanation why it souldn't be carried this way? If it's empty there is no danger of firing and if loaded it would only shoot into the ground (very few tarred roads). Also if it is raining the barrel would remain dry.