Rations

[markj]

Re: HardTack boxes

Hi,

I don't have the U.S. Army Regulations of 1861 (rev. 1863) in front of me but I do believe hardtack box dimensions are also listed therein. I have also found dimensions for boxes listed in published contractor bid solicitations issued by the Cincinnati QM Depot in 1862. These vary somewhat from the "official specs." If you want these, let me know and I'll dig them out of my vast pile of clippings.

Of course, if you have the greenbacks, you can save yourself the trouble and simply buy the boxes direct from the G. H. Bent Company or Greenewood Boxes:

https://www.bentscookiefactory.com/Gifts.htm#crate

http://greenewood.freeyellow.com/Hardtack.html

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Robert Braun]

Re: ID'd Hardtack

While working at the Wisconsin Veteran's Museum, I worked on the Civil War items transferred there from the State Historical Society of Wisconsin. Included in the transfer were dozens of original Civil War hardcrackers. This one on ebay is very similar if not identical to those I cataloged: shape; size; condition; etc. Even the old ink identification on it is similar to identifications I have seen on some. More than likely, it is a Federal piece of hardtack and not Confederate.

I have been fortunate to personally examine several of the artifacts mentioned by Mr. Cross, and concur with his statements.

Bob.

[sivart]

Re: HardTack boxes

I can understand why you would want them for your wife’s cooking impression, but I cannot understand why you would want them for your camp?
A wooden box in the 1860’s was to them what cardboard boxes are to us. They wouldn’t last long, especially in a stationary camp. Wooden boxes broken up make great firewood.
If your men need something to sit on, the ground always works best. :D
I do not mean to be mean with this post in any way, just something to ponder.

[Johan Steele]

Re: HardTack boxes

Actually, it's exactly because they were like cardboard that I want to make a couple to put in the camp for use as... whatever. Whether as a temprorary table or seat it doesn't matter. I essentially got to thinking the other day when I had last seen a hardtack box in a re-enactment. I could only recall one among some boys of the 2nd Wisconsin at one of my first events. As my unit primarily does Living History & we shi away from the powder burning battles I thought a couple of hardtack box laying about camp would be a good idea.

I actually ran across an original a couple monthes ago that had been hinged and at some point had been used as a tool box. I was suprised at how well built it was and how well it had held up across a century and a half. If I had been thinking I would have taken the dimensions of the thing so I could properly replicate it. They wanted $250 for it... I almost choked when I realized what it was. Some enteprising Cav smithy had taken the time to line it w/ cedar shingles and made compartments for some of his tools. He had tacked leather hinges onto the thing and tacked a pair of horse shoes onto it as handles. It was a pretty impressive tool box, if I had the ready money to grab it up I would have. In the same collection there was an original Sharp's carbine ammo box worked in a similar way... that went for $400.

[BorderReb]

Re: HardTack boxes

Here is contact information for Dixie Leather Works.

Dixie Leather Works
PO Box 8221
Paducah, KY 42002-8221
orders 1-800-888-5183
fax 1-270-442-1049
phone 1-270-442-1058
dlw@apex.net

[ohio volunteer]

Re: HardTack boxes

Mark,

Can you send me the specs by the Cincinnati QM Depot?

My email is general1862@aol.com

thanks,

[markj]

Re: HardTack boxes

Hi,

The dimensions for hardtack boxes, bacon boxes, salt meat barrels, etc. are stated in U.S. Army Regulations of 1861 (rev. 1863) on pages 301-302 in the subsistence section under the heading "MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS." An "average box" for hard bread was to be 26 x 17 x 11 inches, exterior in measure. "The ends of a box of this size should be of inch, and the remainder of five-eighths, stuff, the package well strapped with green hickory or other suitable wood." The Cincinnati specs vary somewhat from those stated above. Also note the Regulation dimensions vary a little from what is stated in Kautz.

In the 1863 CS Regulations (NHS reprint), sample box dimensions are listed on page 196, again in the subsistence section. However, no specific information is provided for hard bread boxes. I'm not sure why this isn't stated but it may reflect logistical realities--hard tack was likely less common in the C.S. Army as the war progressed due to wheat flour shortages. Also, on page 132, there is a table showing weight and bulk of rations so, I suppose, one could potentially extrapolate the necessary dimensions and weights of boxes using it as well as information provided elsewhere (I suspect they're identical to those in U.S. Regulations).

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Moonshine]

Tallow candles???

I'm tired of burning beeswax candles! Anyone have a source for tallow ones...?

Much appreciated in advance for any help!

Jim Ross

[va-yank]

Re: Tallow candles???

Hmmm, will watch this with interest. No, I do not know where to get tallow candles, and might also be interested.

The item I settled on some time ago is apparently made of beeswax and parrafin, and of a sort of yellow-brown tint. They are slightly greasy and fairly long burning. They are dipped, and come two to a string. Regimental QM (shudder) sells them in Gettysburg.

Parafin is a by-product of petroleum refining, which was in its infancy during the CW. Which raises the questions, were they still using pure tallow or some hybrid by the time of the CW? This question pertains to what type of candles were being issued by the U.S. per my impression.

Have you used tallow candles before? Sure you want to?

Good luck!

[Hank Trent]

Re: Tallow candles???

Star candles (adamantine candles) were one popular period choice, and an improvement on tallow. They're available at church supply houses among other places, including some online ones. They look and burn a lot like paraffin.

Star candles were included among the options in ration issues, though it would depend on the time and place as to what actually got issued. For example, from the ORs: "sperm candles to 100 rations, 1 pound, or star candles to 100 rations, 1 1/4 pounds; or tallow candles, to 100 rations 1 1/2 pounds."

Paraffin candles were advertised for sale in the Gallipolis, Ohio newspaper here, so they were around for civilian use, but don't know if they were ever issued to the army.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[markj]

Re: Tallow candles???

Hi,

"Stearin" was reportedly first isolated from tallow in 1823 and was subsequently used in candles to make them smoke less and give off more light.

stearin

SYLLABICATION: ste·a·rin
PRONUNCIATION: str-n, stîrn
VARIANT FORMS: also ste·a·rine ( str-n, --rn, stîrn)
NOUN: 1. A colorless, odorless, tasteless ester of glycerol and stearic acid, C3H5(C18H35O2)3, found in most animal and vegetable fats and used in the manufacture of soaps, candles, and adhesives and for textile sizing. Also called tristearin. 2. The solid form of fat.
ETYMOLOGY: French stéarine : Greek stear, tallow; see sti- in Appendix I + French -ine

I would suppose that "star candles" are a corruption of "STEARINE candles."

This might be of interest to you:

http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usamhi/Bibliographies/ReferenceBibliographies/equipment/genmisc.doc

This addresses the subject from a Confederate perspective:

http://www.uttyl.edu/vbetts/lighting.htm

Some possible places to find tallow candles are:

Coyote Found Candles and the Moravian Book Shop (both have websites). If they don't have them, maybe they know somebody who does.

Also, here is a website describing how to make tallow candles:

http://www.smith.edu/hsc/museum/ancient_inventions/candles3.html

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Tallow candles???

Mark Jeager's reference is spot on.

''NATCHEZ DAILY COURIER, March 19, 1861, p. 3, c. 4
Star candles--100 boxes Proctor & Gamble's full weight Star Candles, received and for sale by Ray & Grant, Natchez Landing.
Soap--200 boxes Procter & Gamble's Soap, received and for sale by Ray & Grant, Natchez Landing.''

BEAUTIFUL PRIMARY SOURCE!

Hard beef or ''yellow fat''* when rendered is tallow, soft fat is grease. Tallow was used in candles and grease was used for soap.

Procter & Gamble started life as chandlers and it was common practice for them to collect fat from tanners and hide companies and buy un-needed fat from households.

Horse fat could be rendered as well.

Pork fat was saved for the kitchen and the table.

Make your own soap and candles it is very easy...


* My great-grandmother, Julia Branch Parker, a war baby.

[GWilson]

Whiskey Rations

How often were whiskey rations issued? How much would an individual recieve and how strong would it be? Also, where flasks commonly used or are they are modern type item. Thanks

[1stMaine]

Re: Whiskey Rations

Comrade,
The one episode that I know of was to Hood's Texas brigade after crossing the Potomac on the way to gettysburg. J.B.Polley, who was a member of the 4th Texas, recounted in his history of the Brigade that some officers had located a barrel of Whiskey, and set it by the road, and knocked the top off. As the brigade filed by, each man was allowed to dip his cup into it and draw some out. those who didn't drink were encouraged to draw some for those who did. Being that it had been some time since the last occasion they had access to strong spirits, and because of the warmth of the day, the alcohol seemed to have a rather quick effect upon the men. Those who were too enebriated to continue were taken to the nearest source of water and had their heads soaked until they were "right". The officers apparently had more than a little difficulty in keeping the column closed up. According to Polley, it was one of their longest marches...not so much on account of the LENGTH of the road, but because of it's WIDTH:)
respects,

[Johan Steele]

Re: Whiskey Rations

The man I portray lost his stripes because he stole a "...hogshead of good Whiskey from the Colonels tent and distributed it to the enlisted men of the Regiment." Apparently he felt it an injustice that the officers had as much spirits as they could desire while enlisted men had none. I think the whiskey ration depended from unit to unit as I've read of Regiments never receiving a ration and others receiving a ration on a regular occasion.