Rations

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Mid to late war storage boxes?

Hallo Herr Michael!

Welcome to the AC Forum!

I will assume you are requesting information on "engineer" type impressions, and not on wooden storage boxes for infantry as that would be neither "authentic" nor "campaigner" and not approppriate for this forum.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Moderator

[CSA Engineer]

Re: Mid to late war storage boxes?

Your assumption would be correct, sorry for not making that clear. To clarify I am with an Engineer Company, and an Engineering impression is what I will be using the box for. Most of the guys in my unit have these "wooden"types of boxes for their gear. I was just wondering if any one knows of a good source on how to make my own Authentic Box. I asked the guys in my unit and I get a mixed bag of responses, so I hoped I would get a better idea by posting my questions here. Thanks again for any and all information!

Pvt. Michael Moffett
Co. E 3rd Regiment
Confederate Engineers

[K Bartsch]

Re: Mid to late war storage boxes?

Michael,
I think it would help if we knew what you needed to store. Are we talking surveying equipment for a topographical engineers impression or are we talking picks, mattocks and shovels? Either way, we kind of need to know what kind of gear you're talking about. If its personal equipment, I agree w/Curt that it shouldn't be in boxes. It should be in a knapsack or bedroll.
Good rule of thumb to keep in mind is if you need a box for the extra "stuff' you're probably bringing too much.
Cordially,
K. Bartsch

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Mid to late war storage boxes?

I guess the next thing to do after you know what kind of equipment you are going to store, would be to track down a surviving original or plans of an original to copy. I would look through the ORs and maybe contact the MOC.

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Mid to late war storage boxes?

Not trying to be difficult here, but wouldn't implements be carried in a wagon or on your shoulder?

Other than delicate instruments like surveying tool or optics, I'm not sure what "gear and extras" an engineer company would be crated.

[Johan Steele]

Re: Mid to late war storage boxes?

As a note to this discussion I recently saw two originall hardtack boxes that had been converted into useful tool chests. I don't know if this was done during or after the war but the work was quite nicely done. And both boxes were quite robust.

Each hardtack box had been lined w/ what looked like cedar shingles and compartments had been created in this way. The lid had been hinged by the addition of leather hinges and handles had been created by riveting (I believe that's how they were attached but I'm not certain) a partial horseshoe to each end. I was very suprised when I realized what the tool boxes had been originally. The printing was faded but still legible as was a pair of painted on crossed sabres (though they were faded enough that they may have been either cannons or hatchets w/ what appeared to be either a farriers insignia or a badly faded number above, this marking was actually more faded than the original markings. I'm kicking myself for not dishing out the $ to buy them as I think it would have been an interesting show piece... but I have a house payment, bills and a family to feed.

Sigh, I hate responsability getting in the way of the hobby.

[BrianHicks]

Re: Mid to late war storage boxes?

If I recall correctly, it was Co. E, Conf. Engineers that always had several boxes of various kinds when I had seen them at the Riley's Farm events, and the Vista Steam Engine Museum event. Signaling lamps and other engineer related equipment seemed to be what was stored in them (if I remember correctly).

[CSA Engineer]

Re: Mid to late war storage boxes?

Yes Brian, your memory serves you correctly.My intent for the Box was to utilize it for my Engineering equipment, in the same manner that you have mentioned. I do not intend to make so large as to store pics shovels and the like in it, I was mainly thinking something roughly the same size as a hard tack box. I dont want it so large that it would take 2 men to lift it! Again thanks to all for the help.


Pvt. Michael Moffett
Co. E 3rd Regiment
Confederate Engineers

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Mid to late war storage boxes?

Since you just need storage boxes for whatever it is you are storing, why don't you just make some cracker boxes?

Why would engineers have signal lamps? Pardon my ignorance, but I thought such implements would have been in use by the Signal Corps.

[RLSchwartz]

Re: Tallow candles???

I'm tired of burning beeswax candles! Anyone have a source for tallow ones...?

Much appreciated in advance for any help!

Jim Ross

Mr. Ross,
Perhaps this period newspaper article will help you with your research.
Regards,
Robin Schwartz

~~~~~~~~~
LOUISVILLE DAILY JOURNAL, November 19, 1862.

[Note: There are actually two tables with this article. Table I compares “The Relative Cost to Consumers of the Illuminating Materials in Use in Lafayette, Indiana.” Table I was very difficult to read from the photocopy I used for my transcription. Therefore, I only transcribed part of it below.

The candles mentioned in Table I (column 1 – type of candle, column 2 – origin) are:]

Red wax candles (4’s), from Josiah Macy, N.Y.;
Green wax candles (fragment) from Josiah Macy;
Paraffine candles (6’s) [origin not clear, perhaps Macy?];
Tallow candles (6’s) from “E.T. Jenks, Lafay’tte”;
Sperm candles (4’s) “10 years old”;
Star candles (6’s) from Cornwall & Brother, London;
Star candles (4’s) (10 years old) from Werk & Co., Cin[cinnati];
Star candles (6’s) Proctor & Gamble, C[incinnati];
Star candles (6’s) Dennis & Co., N.Y. Cincinnati.

The cost of lb. of candles by count (column 3), cost of “real” lb. (column 4) and melting point of the candles (column 6) was:

Red wax $0 50 $0 562 117-115 degrees
Green wax --- --- 115-113 “
Paraffine $0 60 $0 689 129-126 “
Tallow $0 13 $0 161 117-198 1/2 “
Sperm $0 46 $0 430 117-113 “
Star [C&B] $0 25 $0 303 127-115 “
Star [Werk] $0 25 $0 277 138-131 “
Star [P&G] $0 25 $0 253 131-122 “
Star [Dennis] $0 25 $0 254 120-117 “

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
C A N D L E S.
[Table 2]

The candles tested were purchase at different places, at the retail prices noted in column 3 of the above table. Having weighed a pound, _by count_, of each, its price for a true pound was calculated, giving the results of column 4. The following numbers represent the thickness of the respective candles at the base, with the nature of their wicks:

Thickness of No. of Strands No. of Threads in
Candle--Inch in Wicks Each Strand

Wax, red 7-8 3 loosely braided. 21
Wax, green 13-16 3 loosely braided. 24
Paraffine 7-8 3 braided. 16
Tallow 13-16 Twisted. 21
Sperm 7-8 2 twisted. 18
Star [C&B] 27-32 3 braided. 2[?illeg.]
Star [Werk] 13-16 3 braided. 27
Star [P&G] 13-16 3 braided. 24
Star [Dennis] 13-16 3 braided. 24

The degree of fineness of the threads composing the above wicks varied, the tallow wick being as usual very coarse. The star candles arranged themselves in the following order in this respect, proceeding from finest to coarsest threads: Werk & Co., Dennis & Co., Procter & Gamble, Cornwall & Brother. The wick of Werk & Co. was uneven and tightly braided; that of Procter & Gamble not uniform in thickness of braid. The threads of the Paraffine were the finest of all the wicks.
When the candles were all viewed burning together, the flame of the paraffine at once signalized itself by the shortness, superior whiteness, and steadiness of its flame. The cup formed at the top of the candle is deep, and of sharply defined edge. This candle would make an admirable photometric standard, especially since the fineness of the wick would diminish its disturbing action upon the flame.
Of the star candles, the Cornwall burned in the most satisfactory manner, and the Dennis & Co. in the least so, the latter flickering and running much. The Procter a& Gamble candle burned well , but with a tendency to run and flare. The Werk & Co. candle was satisfactory in the manner of its burning, but gave less light than the others. This candle, ten years old, was the whitest and fairest in material of all the stars. That of Dennis & Co. was the _greasiest_. The latter candle is marked “chemical sperm,” and is doubtless a mixture of stearic aid, with unsaponified fat. An alteration of the wick would no doubt render the candles of Procter & Gamble, and those of Werk & Co., equal in every respect to the best star candle.
As may be seen by Table I, the star candles vary very much in cost to the consumer.
A count lb. of Cornwall & Bro. candle weighed 5,767 grains.
“ “ Procter & Gamble candle weighed 6,903 “
“ “ Werk & Co. “ “ 6,316 “
“ “ Dennis & Co. “ “ 6,886 “

instead of 7,000 grains. As Procter & Gamble advertise their candles as of full weight, I weighed samples from two different boxes with the above result.
The deficiency of weight of the other candles is as follows – a lb. by count, instead of 7,000 grains weight:
Of wax, red. . . . . . . . . . . . . 6,224 Tallow . . . . . . . . . . . 6,498
Paraffine . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6,096 Sperm . . . . . . . . . . . 6,500

The cost of the candles is also influenced by the different rapidity with which they burn. See Table I. [note: I did not transcribe all of Table I. RS] From column 9, which represents the hourly actual cost of burning the several lights, it is seen that the Cornwall & Werk candles cost nearly alike, viz.: almost 7 mills; that the Procter & Gamble candle is the cheapest being worth a little over 6 mills; while the Dennis candle is the dearest of all the stars. The sperm candle costs 9 mills per hour, and the Paraffine, at the price received here, is the dearest of all candles. The tallow candle is the cheapest of all the lights in actual cost of burning – a little over 3 mills per hour; but its light, at the very best, is only ¾ that of the star; and with a long snuff, as they are frequently seen, the light is 1/10th that of the star candle.
If we combine the quantity of light with its cost, the Procter & Gamble candle is cheaper than the Cornwall by about ½ mill a per hour; but if we take into account the waste from the facility of running of the former candle, the Cornwall will be found superior to all of the star candles which I have examined. If a tallow candle be kept constantly snuffed, its cost for equal light is less than that of the star candle; but, as usually burned, its cost surpasses that of the sperm, and equals that of the expensive paraffine; while, as frequently seen with a long snuff, its cost surpasses that of all other light. Ure [Dr. Ure, scientist] found that a tallow candle unsnuffed loses in intensity of light, “in 30 minutes 80/100ths, in 39 minutes 86/100ths, in which dim state it remains stationary,” with which observation my own accords.
Reference to the melting points demonstrates that the sperm candle tested was perfectly pure. These points were determined in the usual manner, by inclosing the substance in a capillary tube tied to the bulb of a thermometer, which was placed first in water gradually heated, and then gradually cooled, determining first the temperature for perfect limpidity, and then that for perfect opacity; as may be seen in column 6, Table I.
[Transcription by Robin Schwartz, March 26, 2002]

[jigadier brindle]

Re: Tallow candles???

Pards,
A simple websearch provided a link to a historic property operated by the NPS which sells hand dipped tallow candles, their site can be found at, Gifford House . Scroll down, and you can find the hand dipped tallow, apparently with some beeswax added, and if you buy from this site the proceeds seemingly go towards a good cause.
-I'm also including a link to the "Vintage Volumes" website which is one of the few, if not the only supplier of authentic stearin candles, they can be found at: Vintage Volumes

Hope this helps,

-Nicholas Redding

[Hank Trent]

Re: Tallow candles???

Here's another source for stearine candles. http://www.wjgallery.com/sx010001.htm When we ordered some a while ago, we asked if they were 100% stearine and the company said yes, but it wouldn't hurt to double-check.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[SparksBird]

Re: Tallow candles???

Good luck finding spermacetti in this day and age. The whaling industry just isn't what it used to be. But, I did hear a neat story from a friend a while back that worked at Greenfield Village. She said that they actually had an old barrel of spermacetti that had been sitting around for some time and that they actually made some candles from it. However, she did say that these were not for sale and were only made for their purposes.
Lastly, I couldn't miss this opportunity to tell one of my favorite Allendale Melodian jokes: "How am McClellan's Army like de tallow candle? Dey both runs when it gits hot!!!"

Rick Musselman
Buckeye Mess
GHTI

[Moonshine]

Re: Tallow candles???

Nicholas,

Thanks for those links. One time I visited the Hans Herr house in Penn. and if I can recall, they may have had candles there too, much like the "Gifford House".

Jim Ross

[markj]

Re: HardTack boxes

Greetings,

Here's a "hardbread" box according to Trans-Mississippi Confederate specs:

[LITTLE ROCK] ARKANSAS TRUE DEMOCRAT, October 1, 1862, p. 1, c. 7
To Carpenters.
Office Chief Commissary Trans-Mississippi Department, }
Little Rock, Sept. 27, 1862. }
Sealed proposals will be received at this office, until Monday, the 5th day of October, A. D. 1862, for making Two Thousand Boxes for packing Hard Bread.
The Boxes are to be two feet long, 1 foot 6 inches wide and 1 foot 5½ inches deep, in the clear, and to be made similar to a specimen which may be seen at the office of the Post Commissary.
I will furnish lumber and part of the nails, for which the contractor will pay cost prices.
The boxes must be delivered at the rate of 5 per cent per day, of the contract, and bids will be received for five hundred boxes. Bond with approved security will be required.
John C. Palmer, Maj.
and Chief Commissary.

The specs above (24 L x 18 W x 17 1/2 D) vary significantly from those mentioned in previous posts for Federal boxes. I'm not sure why this is so, but it likely had something to do with the actual size of the hard bread itself.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger