Rations

[Lawrence]

Re: Rice

thanks for the tip Charles, I'll get onto them ...

And I know you guys care about these things, that's why I like lurking around here so much!

Thanks mate,

[theknapsack]

Commissary Department, 50th NY Engineers

I know I've posted this photo before, but it was lost along with the crash. So I'll post some cool details I've found in it. I'll leave it up to the board members to discuss.
Petersburg, Va. General view of the commissary department, 50th New York Engineers
CALL NUMBER
LC-B817- 7060

REPRODUCTION NUMBER
LC-DIG-cwpb-03676 DLC (digital file from original neg.)
LC-B8171-7060 DLC (b&w film neg.)

Attached are some good details from the image, in order:
1. Child or young man in non-regulation (civilian?) clothing
2. Man with Dark Blue (civilian?) trousers, vest, another with pet goats. Check out the uniform details!
3. Butcher and a spiffy looking soldier, plus barrel details (Beans and Onions, Beans highlighted)
4. One soldier with private purchase clothing (nice porkpie)? and an NCO with dark blue trousers.
5. Young Soldier with his sack coat tucked in and the collar folded in - like an overshirt. What is the cap?
6. (My personal favorite) Soldier performing Support Arms correctly at attention, plus notice the fully equipped tool-box on the ground behind him.

I've noticed more and more tucked sack coats as I do more photo research. Why do you suppose it is more consistent with soldiers who are working (or in engineers) than soldiers who are not. Can you find anymore details in this photo?

[ephraim_zook]

Re: Commissary Department, 50th NY Engineers

There is much more neat stuff in this image. When I began to perform a commissary role, I looked hard at the several images that I could find, including this one. There are some other things in here that I like.
1) Above/behind the man at support arms is a stack of soft bread loaves.
2) Above the bean barrel is a spring scale. In fact, scales are abundant. There is a platform scale to our right of the guy with the dog (or goat) and a balance scale in the background between the building and the shed on the left.
3) The meat saw doesn't look much different than those in use today.
4) To our left of the support arms guy is an open box of white things -- candles maybe?
5) The NCO leaning in the doorway is wearing commissary sgt chevrons.
6) And the feller at support arms has one impressive saber bayonet on his rifle.

I have a couple of other commissary or quartermaster photos which seem to have been made to indicate the relative abundance of supplies that the federal army had. I'll try to remember to post one in the near future.

regards
Ron Myzie
Reenactment Nutrition Specialist

[Charles Heath]

Re: Commissary Department, 50th NY Engineers

Riley,

That is also one of my favorite images, more for the exceptions than the norms. The Engineer Brigade has a number of good photographs, among them the church at their Poplar Grove camp, their "gingerbread house" headquarters, and their Rappahannock Station images are also good. Fans of Winter 1864, will enjoy the "50th breaking campt at Petersburg" image, as it will remind them of the end of that event.

One question that hasn't been answered about that image is whether or not it is a brigade commissary. The 1st, 15th, and 50th were in the Volunteer Engineer Brigade, although attached to different corps. The 50th was known in a good way for overbuilding just about everything, so it may just be the regimental commissary for their 12 companies. These 12 companies were broken into 2 battalions.

The fellow at support arms is guarding the rations. That is one of those "good ideas" found in a number of documents. To this day, food service items remain as one of those easily pilferable areas of supply.

Ron brings out some of the exceptions we normally don't see in the field. The fresh bread brought out via USMRR from City Point while still warm was such a morale booster that before the novelty wore off, this luxury was frequently mentioned in letters and journals.

The spring scale with the sharp hook is where it is for what reason? The meat is a clue. Most of us would recognize these scales for piscatorial pursuits. The balance scale has a different function. I can't help but wonder if they have a platform scale in one of those buildings. Thanks to the Fairbanks of Vermont, such devices had been around for around 30 years.

The meat saws have changed. Disposable stainless steel blades have been around for at least 30 years (Disston used to make some great ones), and more and more the ones hanging in shops (at least those inspected regularly) are of nonferrous materials. In the fleamarket collections along the way, I have seen old hacksaws still being used from time to time, but they were mostly decorative.

Candles would be my first guess, too. The image is just clear enough to reveal the individual rows of stearite candles, and they aren't packaged in 40 each packs of Star Candle 6s. That makes me wonder if the size and shape of the box may be soap. Remember when soap came in wood boxes? That portion of the image would be good to enlarge.

The containers add much to the image. Would that we could get barrels in that size and that style for a reasonable price these days. Look around, and do you see what familiar box is not there?

Their campsite remains as federal property to this day. It is Poplar Grove National Cemetery, and it is well worth a visit when in the Petersburg area. It doesn't receive a heck of a lot of visitation.

I can't remember if we beat this image to death on the Hard Case Boys Forum, but some good images with analysis are over there, too. Would we see such base of operations built by troops at most events? Probably not. Are similar purpose buildings represented at events such as Winter 1864? Yes.

[C.R. Henderson]

Re: Commissary Department, 50th NY Engineers

At least to my eye, the "familiar box" (or similar) looks like it is being used as a butcher's table. It appears as though the fellow has revitalized the empty container by fliping it upside down, sans-lid, and placed it upon the barrel creating a quite serviceable table. This way, no matter how hard he saws, the "table top" won't slide off the barrel head. Great image.

Chris Henderson

[theknapsack]

Re: Commissary Department, 50th NY Engineers

Upon a third lookover, I noticed some things in this image worth mentioning:
The Pockets of the man to the right are cut at a 45 degree angle, or curved, not unlike modern dungarees (image attached).
The Pockets of the man with his sack coat tucked in are what we call "mule ear pockets" Also the man to his right has a medal on (image attached).
The man in the doorway of the larger building is leaning on something, also there is a metal box with meat on top (what is the thing he is leaning on, and what is the metal box? image attached)
The man that I said had private purchase clothing, upon further close up inspection, probably does not. The slice of lining that is visible from the way he folded his collar reveals a striped (or plaid) lining, perhaps indicating that it came from Schulykill Arsenal.
The Butcher has on trousers where one can clearly see the split (vent) in the bootom of his trousers, and rather than over lapping like we see on most originals, it appears that it is just a split.
Most of the men, privates and NCO's alike, are wearing hat brass (with good reason. It appears as though the Commissary Sergeant and one of the men furthest right have full regimental insignia as well.
This image is constantly getting better, and I know there are people on this forum that have a better eye than I do. One thing that comes apparent in this image which is seemingly put down by the federal reenacting and living history community is the various types of pockets. Seeing different types of pockets is not uncommon in many LOC photos.
Check out the last attachment for a good example of pocket variation. Co G. 27th IL INF.

[flattop32355]

Re: Commissary Department, 50th NY Engineers

I've noticed more and more tucked sack coats as I do more photo research. Why do you suppose it is more consistent with soldiers who are working (or in engineers) than soldiers who are not. Can you find anymore details in this photo?

Am I correct that this individual has no suspenders on? Could be it's just the way he keeps his trowsers up.

It's also possible that removing them is a way to keep your buttons from regularly getting popped off while doing heavy labor.

In the other similar photos of tucked sack coats, can you recall if the men are wearing braces, or seemingly engaged in manual labor?

[Charles Heath]

Re: Commissary Department, 50th NY Engineers

Bernie,

Look through some period images, and you'll see tucked sack coats show up here and there, especially in cold weather images. I wonder if these same fellows tucked their overshirts back home, and if this was more common around men who worked with steam or water powered machinery in their pre-war lives than not.

[tomarch]

Re: Commissary Department, 50th NY Engineers

Can anyone do a blow up of the window on the left-hand building? I did a total double-take! from a distance it looks like a modern aluminum slider. Since one on my interests is period construction I would like to see if it's a wood slider, fixes glass or some other stye of window.

[theknapsack]

Re: Commissary Department, 50th NY Engineers

Can anyone do a blow up of the window on the left-hand building? I did a total double-take! from a distance it looks like a modern aluminum slider. Since one on my interests is period construction I would like to see if it's a wood slider, fixes glass or some other stye of window.

I'm not quite sure what you are talking about... could you explain? Here is what you asked for.

[tomarch]

Re: Commissary Department, 50th NY Engineers

Thanks. It's just that the "look" of the window surprised me(*). I'm used to seeing verticaly proportioned double-hung windows w/ narrow mutins . I haven't seen many period windows that are horizontaly proportioned and I wasn't sure if was an openablewindow or a fixed galss window.

* I know it's not a metal window, It's just that from a distance it bears a close resemblance to a modern alum. sliding-glass window.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Commissary Department, 50th NY Engineers

At least to my eye, the "familiar box" (or similar) looks like it is being used as a butcher's table. It appears as though the fellow has revitalized the empty container by fliping it upside down, sans-lid, and placed it upon the barrel creating a quite serviceable table. This way, no matter how hard he saws, the "table top" won't slide off the barrel head.

Chris,

A couple of ubiquitous hardtack boxes are visible, and the barrels to the left rear are about right for salt pork, but the box we don't see is the bacon box. The reason being the beeves were rations on the hoof at this time. The attractiveness of the federal cattle led to the infamous Beefsteak Raid.

Three details that didn't jump out at first.

1. The pitch of the roofs reflects architecture from "back home," where major snow and ice storms are the norm. I wonder if those shingles are white cedar or white oak?

2. The building to the right appears to be filled with bales of fodder on dunnage. Those large square bales were held together with a fairly large gauge wire, and that wire became bails for dippers.

3. That horse may be a saddled draft horse, or the soldier standing next to him is vertically challenged.

[tomarch]

Re: Commissary Department, 50th NY Engineers

I'm thinking that the shingle material is going to be whatever is local. The trees in the rear might be the same kind of pine you see in the framing of buildings of that period. They could have grubbed out the stumps in the area, cut them into "bolts" and then riven them into shingles. The building on the far right is covered with a much larger kind of shake as well. It's possible that there was some good cedar in the area they could have used.

I agree about the roof pitch, those roofs are designed for an upstate N.Y. winter!

[Charles Heath]

Re: Commissary Department, 50th NY Engineers

Tom,

Both white oak (the preferred shingle wood for that region) and Atlantic white cedar were available in that area. There would be no need to twist or grub out the stumps, as the shingle portion is the 18''-24" bolt of the trunk as measured from the buttress. I'm sure a froe was in great demand, and the native dogwood made for a good club. Now, there is a fatigue detail we don't see every day, and it doesn't take long for a man to have his fill making shingles.

Both white oak and whtie cedar were excellent for cooperage, and the white cedar was all but made extinct for this reason. The last broad commercial use of which was for ice cream makers. You are correct about the yellow pines in the background, the hearts of which made for excellent flooring that hardens over the centuries. It was also good for framing, and siding.

Considering the beauty of the Poplar Grove Church and their own HQs building, it is evident they had some experienced carpenters and joiners in the mix. All of whom, were, of course, good Union men. ;)

[Hagooder02]

To Heck With Your Overplush

I found this description of a ration issue in ‘Berry Benson’s Civil War Book’ (edited by Sue Williams Benson, University of Georgia Press, 1962). Benson was a private and served in Maxcy Gregg’s 1st South Carolina Volunteers. This book is a fascinating read and contains many accounts like this that are gems for doing first person.

When we first went into the army, we had scales for weighing, and measures for liquids, but long before this time the commissary of a company was reduced to dividing out to the men in a much more primitive fashion whatever rations were received from the Regimental Commissary.

The meat (usually bacon) was divided carefully into as many ‘piles’ as there were men, a ‘pile’ usually being one little flat piece about the size of a small cake of toilet soap. Having arranged the ‘piles’ on a long, the commissary would get some fair-minded member of the company to review with him their comparative values. Some colloquy as this would then take place:

“Don’t you think this here piece is a little too big?”
“W-e-e-ll, maybe it is. Where’ll I cut it?”
“About there.”
“Now where’ll I put the scrap?”
“Put her over here with this feller; it’s end and about the littlest one you got. But I say, here’s a right smart sized chunk; don’t you think it’s too big?”
“Well I don’t know; she looks pretty big, but if you’ll notice she’s got a dog-gone sight of a bone in her.”
“Yes, she has got a good deal of bone. Well, let her rip”
Commissary now bawls, “Come up men and get your meat!”
The men gather round in an irregular semi-circle of which the meat is the focus, all eyes fastened on the piece ‘with a dog-gone’ sight of bone in her.” Then the commissary says, “Well, who’s a-goin to call?”
Nobody answers. A pause. Then the commissary says, “How in the hell am I a-going to give you your meat if nobody ain’t a-going to call?”
One speaks up: “Well, I’ll call if nobody else won’t.” He walks off about three paces and turns his back.
The commissary touching a ‘pile’ with his knife, asks, “Whose is this?”
“White’s.” White takes it up and retires, balancing it up and down in his hand.
“Whose is this?”
“Mister Peagler’s” And so on until all are taken, and the little crowd disperses.

Flour, rice, meal, sugar, etc. were divided by measure. Knowing by experience that one man’s ration measured about so much in his cup or so many spoonfuls, the commissary call the men up one at a time, giving each his ration as near as he could guess, but taking care not to give too much. This care lest the supply give out before the end was reached, necessarily caused him to give too little, so that there would still be something left. This was called the “over-plus,” or in camp dialect, the ”overplush.”

Then the voice of the commissary was heard in the land. “Come up, men, and get your over-plush.” And when this was divided it, not unfrequently happened that a little was still left. But to share in this second “overplush,” some of the high and mighty, the proud ones of the earth, disdained, replying to the commissary’s summons, “Go to hell with your second overplush.”

Regards,
Bruce Blackmon