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  • Cooperage Products

    Hello

    I am great enthusiast of coopery products and its history.

    I have made small database with all coopery items I have found on paintings, reliefs, frescos etc. from roman times till end of 19c.

    Its here : http://www.azor.freha.pl/zrodla/bednarka/
    Unfortunately descriptions are in polish language, but just follow numbers, "wiek" means "century".

    It is fascinating to discover that all coopery products look the same through all this time. The same shapes, and what is most important the same technology. Many people believe today that barrel with iron hoops is historically correct before 19c. You can see on those pictures that its not true.

    To be honest I have to say that iron hoops for this products are known already from ancient times. But generally they were very very very rare. All I have found till today is that only buckets used for very deep wells had iron hoops (and iron ears and iron handles as well). And later in history .. buckets used for canons (starting from 14 c.) had such buckets as well. Besides those rest of the buckets, barrels, tubes and all other coopery products had always hazel hoops.

    What is most interesting that all BARRELS, small and big had always hazel hoops . Every one will ask .. why ? Since iron hoops are tougher when barrels are rolled into the ship for example and will not be damaged so quicjly like wooden ones. They are also much better because of the big preasure when big barrel is full.

    Comparing to iron costs in middle-ages and number of coopery products used in each city, village, home, family etc. Its clear that people chosen this type of binding.

    But I always thought that from 18c it should be changed.
    Unfortunately during my research I havent found any one barrel from Napoleonic period with iron hoops in Europe. All in hazel.



    From few days I am searching through pictures taken during ACW. I am totally mazed.

    Please see those pictures:









    The second link from the top shows hundreds of barrels !!! And technology is still like in middleages.

    My aim is to find when people changed technology in this matter.

    If you will find any picture or a drawing with coopery products from ACW times, please dont hesiate to share with me in this topic

    regards
    Last edited by Kakaj; 10-08-2007, 11:54 AM.
    - Cezary Wyszynski -
    [url=http://www.kakaj.freha.pl]my reenactment for 7 different periods[/url]

  • #2
    Re: Coopery products

    Have you found any images of what appears to be rope?

    Sam Hayle
    Tin Rooster Mess

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    • #3
      Re: Coopery products

      Hello

      Rope for hoops ? No, never found.
      What kind of source you have for such idea ?

      By the way, I havent found any sources even for ropes used as handles (for buckets)

      Today coopers use those very often, but it seems to be XX c. invention.
      Please see below this re-creation .... iron hoops for barrels and rope handles for buckets in 18 c. ... but where is the source for it in history ? I havent found.



      Picture taken from: http://www.history.org/Almanack/life...s/tradecoo.cfm
      - Cezary Wyszynski -
      [url=http://www.kakaj.freha.pl]my reenactment for 7 different periods[/url]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Coopery products

        What in the world is "hazel.?" I know most barrel hoops were made of hickory or white oak splits. Perhaps willow splits as well.
        I have a barrel nearly identical to the ones in the embalming picture/negro soldier pic. The splits appear to be hickory saplings or limbs split in half. If you want to see some wonderful, modern era coopering, using the old hand-made techniques, look up Will Heins and Sons. Will is a friend and a fellow member of the Southern Highland Craft Guild. His work comes straight from the tree and he mainly uses sasafras.

        Joe Mode
        Joe Mode

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        • #5
          Re: Coopery products

          Sorry, that should be W.T. Hines and Sons coopering.

          Joe Mode
          Joe Mode

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          • #6
            Re: Coopery products

            Hello Cezary,
            Thank you for taking an interest in American cooperage. I don't know nearly as much about the subject as I would like but there are some good photos on the Sykes Regulars page that may be of help to you. http://www.cwreenactors.com/~sykes/e...rels_boxes.php
            Troy Groves "AZReenactor"
            1st California Infantry Volunteers, Co. C

            So, you think that scrap in the East is rough, do you?
            Ever consider what it means to be captured by Apaches?

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            • #7
              Re: Coopery products

              Interesting stuff. I had never given any thought or notice to the subject. It's good information to have.

              It appears that in the last photo showing the mule team and wagon, that the bucket hanging beneath the wagon has metal bands but the barrel in the foreground is certainly bound with wooden bands.
              Michael Comer
              one of the moderator guys

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              • #8
                Re: Coopery products

                Hello

                Its difficult to discuss with you when I am beginner here, and my posts wait around 10 hours to appear. I put my answer above after Sam Hayle's question, please take a look.

                The link to the Sykes Regulars page is great. Thank you.
                However its shame that they dont dated theirs sources. It may be that some pictures are later than 1865.

                From yesterday I have found some new pictures.
                And again ... ALL dated to be from ACW time are with wooden hoops, those from late 19c are made with metal hoops.

                I feel that the 'line of change' is somwhere nearby middle-end of 19c. But I need to do more in research. Its interesting to find out what % of coopery items where still made with wooden hoops in 1865.

                It may be that the revolution in this subject came just after ACW war. Who knows.
                More pictures need to be collected.

                Maybe someone will know how to find cooper guilds regulations from different times from america ?

                Joe Mode: Hazel was common in Europe for coopery, but other you have mentioned above also will do. Maybe american hazel is not so good like european, and you have better other types of bent wood for this work.

                Thanks for info about W.T. Hines and Sons I have never found them before.
                - Cezary Wyszynski -
                [url=http://www.kakaj.freha.pl]my reenactment for 7 different periods[/url]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Coopery products

                  Originally posted by Kakaj View Post
                  Its difficult to discuss with you when I am beginner here, and my posts wait around 10 hours to appear.
                  That darn family keeps getting in my way. You should have full posting access now.

                  Regards,
                  Paul Calloway
                  Proudest Member of the Tar Water Mess
                  Proud Member of the GHTI
                  Member, Civil War Preservation Trust
                  Wayne #25, F&AM

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