Waving flags to various observations

[Parault]

I have noticed recently ( maybe just now really paying attention ) several things that stand out at events,that I have questions about.

First;

Multi-part question, Why do Flag bearers wave their flags during a battle when the Company/ Battalion/Brigade is in a line of battle,engaged,and not moving? Is this just one of reenactorisms? Can anyone direct me where to look about flag movements/how-to for Flag Bearers?

I understand while forming,or reforming during the confusion of battle,it might be advisable to wave the flag especially if there is no wind to unfurl the flag,however I have seen this practiced when the Flag Bearer is safe behind the lines,and there is no movement of troops.

Second;

I have heard from both schools of thought on this one.

"Route Step! Arms at Will" If it is a route step isn't it automatic arms at will?
Yes/No ?

[Justin Runyon]

Re: Waving flags to various observations

I'll let someone else field question one.

As to question 2, look no further than the manuals.

Casey: P.163
School of the Company
Lesson VI Paragraph 313

"At the command March, repeated by the captain, the two ranks will step off together; the rear rank will take in marching, by shortening a few steps, a distance of one pace (twenty eight inches) from the rank preceeding, which distance will be computed form the breasts of the man in the rear rank to the knapsacks of the man in the front rank. The men, without further command, will immediately carry their arms at will, as indicated in the S.S., No. 228, or they may slong them on their backs muzzle up."

For reference, SS No. 228 reads:

"At this command, carry the piece at pleasure on either shoulder, with one or both hands, the muzzle elevated."

[ephraim_zook]

Re: Waving flags to various observations

"Why do Flag bearers wave their flags during a battle when the Company/ Battalion/Brigade is in a line of battle,engaged,and not moving? Is this just one of reenactorisms? "

Because it looks cool? Out of boredom? Early in my reenacting career I was the color bearer at several events, and our company commander was quite firm in his instruction to me: "DO NOT wave the colors around. Just DO NOT." When I asked why the rebels were doing it, he just repeated that "we don't do that".

Ron Myzie

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Waving flags to various observations

It's impossible for people on this forum to tell you why reenactor color bearers are waving their flag at certain times; for an answer you need to ask the people holding those flags. I know of no manual-of-the-regimental-flag that calls for anything other than picking up the flag, putting it down, and dipping it.

About route step, yes, "arms at will" is implied; officers who explicitly say it either don't understand it, or think their men do not understand it.

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: Waving flags to various observations

I would say this occurs more often at mainstream events than authentic, and it usually happens because the flag bearer has too much energy and excitement during the Sunday afternoon battle to just stand there. From past experience, the only time the flag bearers form up, is right before the battle.

Let those guys carry the flag during a long march all day, and they won't be waving them around.

Could this be a question of attending the wrong events?

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Re: Waving flags to various observations

At the same time, while it may not be always right for battalion color bearers to replicate the end of Act I from Les Mis, let's not get the false impression that they were stationary robots.

Ben Crippen, George Branard, John Kiggins, and others might disagree with you on that point.

[RJSamp]

Re: Waving flags to various observations

At the same time, while it may not be always right for battalion color bearers to replicate the end of Act I from Les Mis, let's not get the false impression that they were stationary robots.

Ben Crippen, George Branard, John Kiggins, and others might disagree with you on that point.

There are plenty of readings about ACW color bearers flying and waving the colors to increase the morale and esprit de corps of their unit, and to serve as a visual rallying point for the troops. Ron, Kevin, Aaron.....you can go to the back of the room. And Kevin, common sense alone rules out the "look in the manual" mantra you're espousing... the color bearers were excited...you would be too with all that shot and shell aimed right for you. Many of these battles were fought in light winds, how do you thing they flew the colors when they weren't moving?

They were NOT stationary robots, nor did they need a manual on how to fly the colors. When they captured a breastworks or battery they jumped up on the parapets or cannon and waved the colors proudly for all to see.....

For example, here's a quick hit in the OR's....there were several HUNDRED in the OR's alone...let alone the rest of the online stuff (Battles and Leaders):
"Sergt. A. Simas, flag-bearer of the Tenth Texas (Colonel [M. F.] Lock), seeing in one of the charges a Federal flag-bearer with his flag waving his regiment forward, sprang forward and seized the Federal flag, when both fell dead waving their banners with their last breath. The Federal flag was captured. "

[Parault]

Re: Waving flags to various observations

Thank you gentleman for the answers. I knew that during the "Route Step" it is implied arms at will. I just thought thatI had slept through that part of the manual or shall I say manuals.

I understand that the Flag Bearers were not " Robots." I would like to speculate that they had sufficient discipline to do their jobs of protecting and marking the place of their regiment during the conflict,without just waving their flags for no other reason than just being bored.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Waving flags to various observations

Ron, Kevin, Aaron.....you can go to the back of the room. And Kevin, common sense alone rules out the "look in the manual" mantra you're espousing... the color bearers were excited...you would be too with all that shot and shell aimed right for you. Many of these battles were fought in light winds, how do you thing they flew the colors when they weren't moving?

RJ, RJ, RJ...

You presume too much about my post on this thread. The original post asked what the flag-bearers were doing, and I replied that he needed to ask them and not the forum. I added that there's little in any manual I know of about how a flag-bearer was supposed to do his job.

To save space and typing effort, I didn't go into a treatise on "read the memoirs of original color bearers from the Civil War and learn more about it." Every time I do that someone posts, PMs, or IMs me that I'm a nasty ol' hardcore who doesn't give folks the info they seek. Yes, those memoirs, letters, accounts, etc. from guys like Peter Welsh, Hosmer, and others are available and are probably very-recommended reading for anyone who aspires to wave a flag in reenacting.

Try to not presume so much when you read a post.