CS scabbards

[Delhi Rangers]

Gentlemen:
Who is a good source for a bayonet scabbard for an AOT impression? I use a P53 Enfield bayonet. Who and what type would you recommend? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Johnny Pullen

[1842musket]

Re: Bayonet Scabbard for AOT Impression

Johnny,
I would recommend 2 sources in particular:

https://www.missouribootandshoe.com

www.orchardhillsutlery.com (specifically the CS scabbards made by Cary Davisson)

There is no particular "AOT style" bayonet scabbard that I'm aware of, and much like original CS scabbards I've seen with an ANV provenance, I've seen original CS scabbards with an AOT provenance with brass, tin, lead and iron tips. I personally think a brass tipped CS scabbard would be a good choice and Bob Serio (mo boot and shoe) can make you a documented CS scabbard with a sheet brass tip. There's nothing wrong with the lead ball tipped scabbards, but I think this is probably overrepresented in our hobby. More than 50% of the original CS accoutrements I've examined used brass in the finial, button or tip.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Larry McIrvin

[Clark Badgett]

Re: Bayonet Scabbard for AOT Impression

Contact J.R. "Butch" Myers in Richmond, VA and he'll talk your ear off about accoutrements, and he says he has documentable proof that Richmond sent stuff to Georgia for the western armies, and vice versa. Call information for his #, he lives on Horse Pen Road.

[Texian]

Enfield Bayonet ?'s

I am looking at two original bayonets, one marked with an E over a crown over the number 30, the second marked with the number 46 under a crown and the letter B, the makers name of "REEVES & Co" ,and what appears to be a G over M or NC. Which is more appropriate, if either, for my 1862 Tower Enfield and why? Also, in the absence of any specific unit information regarding the type of scabbard issued, which is the most common for an ANV impression, the sewn scabbard or the actual Enfield style scabbard?
Thanks,
---Ed

[JimKindred]

Re: Enfield Bayonet ?'s

Start with Robert M. Reilly's "American Socket Bayonets and Scabbards". There is a chapter on Confederate scabbards.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Enfield Bayonet ?'s

Hallo Kameraden!

Short answer on the bayonets: neither.

Bayonets with government markings such as you describe (Enfield inspectors' marks) or the British "broad arrow" denote British government ownership and were issued only with RSAF guns (although some argue some of these did come into the Confederacy very late in the War...).
Such bayonets, from around the world, and particularly Canada, having been flowing in the US for years now that the selling prices of "ACW items" have skyrocketed.

Bayonets can be tricky, as there is a legion of stampings such as initials, various stand-alone crowns, numbers, abbreviations, etc. At the risk of making a broad sweeping statement, no markings are often the best for ACW use.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Texian]

Re: Enfield Bayonet ?'s

Gents,
Thanks for the info and leads.
---Ed

[Niels_Kaas]

Re: Enfield Bayonet ?'s

A valuable, if somewhat prolix, source is Graham Priest's article, "'Enfield Bayonets' in the Civil War, 1861-1865," which appeared in Man at Arms, 24 #2 (April 2002). The primary focus of the article is on bayonet markings. It's worth checking out if you're serious about this.

Paul Lockhart
Copperheads

[Michael McComas]

Re: Enfield Bayonet ?'s

The Reeves bayonet is actually the better candidate of the two. It's a contractor-made bayonet that was inspected in Birmingham. The Crown-over-B mark is the inspection mark of BSA, Small Heath, Birmingham, and was in use from 1861 until the 1960's. That mark in and of itself does not denote British government ownership because BSA was a contractor. (See Skennerton The Broad Arrow, p. 69 Inspection Markings) However, the G/M or G/NC is a unit marking. I'd have to see what and where it is to be able to tell you for sure what unit the bayonet belonged to.

[2MDF&D]

Re: Enfield Bayonet ?'s

Also, in the absence of any specific unit information regarding the type of scabbard issued, which is the most common for an ANV impression, the sewn scabbard or the actual Enfield style scabbard?
Thanks,
---Ed

The sewn.
Rob McFarland

[Illinois Reb]

CS scabbards

I tried the search function, but didn't find the answer I was looking for.

For CS bayonet scabbards, particularly, those worn by ANV infantry around 1862-63, what type of finial or tip was most prevalent? I've seen the all-sewn as well as lead ball finials for CS styles, but am unsure if one would be more appropriate than the other.

I've had touble in the past trying to figure this out from period photos as the majority of scabbards I see are on Federal troops. Most confederate photos that I've come across are either dead or captured soldiers where their accoutrements have already been removed. I prefer not to look at studio portraits as I'm not sure if the accoutrements worn are property of the soldier, or just studio props.

Sources are greatly appreciated.

Rich Stonikas
Co. D 17th Mississippi Infantry

[onemoreb]

Re: CS scabbards

The Richmond bayonet scabbard had a lead ball tip. Robert Serio makes a really nice one. There are also some Confederate scabbards with tin tips. There are few examples remaining of these due to the fact they rust away and disintegrate.

[Slouch]

Re: CS scabbards

I found a report in the OR's that documents some of the items purchased, manufactured, and issued between November ? 1862 and November 1863.

Bayonet scabbards:
1,675 repaired, 114,858 purchased, 15,379 fabricated, 167,018 issued

Cart. Boxes:
2,123 repaired 126,733 purchased, 34,666 fabricated, 171,251 issued

Cap pouches:
1,442 repaired, 157,402 purchased, 41,189 fabricated, 185,661 issued

As you can see, the most common type would be of the "purchased" variety. Im not sure if all of the purchased items were run through the blockade (ie British items) or if purchased items could in part be domestically produced items from private sources.

In regards to the domestic scabbards that are being reproduced today, the sewn tip and lead tip are about your only choice. Im not sure if anyone is producing a tin-tip scabbard. I do not know of any documentation that would make one style a more appropriate choice for a given time period. The tips could have varied between shops, or even within the same shop depending on what was on hand.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: CS scabbards

I found a report in the OR's that documents some of the items purchased, manufactured, and issued between November ? 1862 and November 1863.

Bayonet scabbards:
1,675 repaired, 114,858 purchased, 15,379 fabricated, 167,018 issued

Cart. Boxes:
2,123 repaired 126,733 purchased, 34,666 fabricated, 171,251 issued

Cap pouches:
1,442 repaired, 157,402 purchased, 41,189 fabricated, 185,661 issued

As you can see, the most common type would be of the "purchased" variety. Im not sure if all of the purchased items were run through the blockade (ie British items) or if purchased items could in part be domestically produced items from private sources.

In regards to the domestic scabbards that are being reproduced today, the sewn tip and lead tip are about your only choice. Im not sure if anyone is producing a tin-tip scabbard. I do not know of any documentation that would make one style a more appropriate choice for a given time period. The tips could have varied between shops, or even within the same shop depending on what was on hand.

Mike,

Great stuff! Can you post a citation from the ORs? Did this detail a particular Shop/Depot/QM Dept?

Paul

[Rev]

Re: CS scabbards

In regards to the domestic scabbards that are being reproduced today, the sewn tip and lead tip are about your only choice. Im not sure if anyone is producing a tin-tip scabbard. I do not know of any documentation that would make one style a more appropriate choice for a given time period. The tips could have varied between shops, or even within the same shop depending on what was on hand.

CD Jarnigan sells a tin tipped scabbard. I'm not an expert by any means, but mine has passed muster with some friends of mine who are more studied than am I.