The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

[Todd Watts]

Re: Blockade Runner Enfield Defarb

I was just browsing at the Gunrunner site http://www.gunrunnerauctions.com/ and they are selling an 1862 dated Enfield which they claim has the Confederate "anchor" on the lock plate. I can't tell by the pictures attached if they do or not. I did see an original on the internet a year or so ago that had a distinct JS over anchor mark on the lock plate of an Enfield. This one they are selling is not the same one I saw because its condition is far worse. It appears that it was done in at least a very limited number of instances but "why" I can't be sure.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Blockade Runner Enfield Defarb

Stock engraving, too. That should make you happy. Two for one.

[jhodnett]

Re: James River Armory - Defarbed Enfields

Here are some pics of my Barnett Enfield that I purchased from James River.

[CJ Roberts]

Re: James River Armory - Defarbed Enfields

Jeff,

Very nice looking rifle. The hammer looks particularly good. Do you happen to know if this is the so called "fat hammer" that JRA is producing? It looks heavier than the standard Euroarms/Armisport hammers.

C.J. Roberts

[Craig L Barry]

Re: James River Armory - Defarbed Enfields

That is indeed the more accurate repro "fat" hammer. JRA offers them for both Armi Sport and EOA models. The London hammer is unmarked as in the example above. The Birmingham version has the double line engraving around the perimeter and "flames" extending down the nose. A real improvement to the overall appearance.

[jhodnett]

Re: James River Armory - Defarbed Enfields

From what Mark told me at James River the hammer is actually from a run of M1861 Special Models that was done a while back and I am pretty pleased with it. Overall I am very happy with the weapon. Thank you for your comments.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: James River Armory - Defarbed Enfields

Yes, that is absolutely true. The Colt Special Model of 1861 hammer is virtually identifical to the Potts & Hunt London gunmaker hammer and there is a very good reason for that similarity.

[Joe Walker]

Re: James River Armory - Defarbed Enfields

Jeff-

Remember back to the 125th era when most of the 20th Tenn carried originals? I carried and 1862 Springfield or an 1842 and didn't worry about this stuff.

Joe Walker

[jhodnett]

Re: James River Armory - Defarbed Enfields

It sure would be nice to have those weapons Joe. But for now I think I'll be happy with my repop Enfield.

[rogue]

Re: James River Armory - Defarbed Enfields

Seems as fall approaches the Way Back Machine (a phrase that means little unless you are of a certain age) is in full operation.
Because the only repros that were available at the time were Zouaves and 1863 Springfields from Val Forgett, I carried a original Colt produced P-53 Enfield at the 125th Shiloh, Gettysburg and Franklin. The Parker-Hale 3 band was just introduced, but at near $300.00, it was too expensive for most to afford. I bought that long barreled Enfield for $45.00 when I was in grade school, and even factoring in inflation it was not too bad a deal. I still have it, a right handsome piece of work.
AC people today have such a wide variety of weaponry (and uniforms and accoutrements) to chose from, I certainly hope that this variety is appreciated. Back in the day we had to really work at trying to get it right.
I fell in with the 33rd Wisconsin and Don Rademacher later, and we were poster children for the way things should have been (save for my 20th century tummy).
The authentics of today have, I hope, benefitted from those who started in this hobby when the Cold War was hot, a dollar was a meaningful item, and Reagan was in the White House.
Steve Sullivan
knew the Rock brothers and Scott Cross in the olde days...

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: James River Armory - Defarbed Enfields

Hallo!

We see as far as we do because we stand on the shoulders of giants .

Curt
Mr. Peabody Mess

[Craig L Barry]

Re: James River Armory - Defarbed Enfields

A few still walk the earth. We just lost Howie Maddaus. Off the subject, sorry. May be a subject for a new thread...

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: James River Armory - Defarbed Enfields

Hallo!

Indeed!

Here's to Howard, who taught me most of what I know about the U.S. M1855 series of arms.
(and who filled up closet of mine with Troiani prints..)

Curt

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Too Many Enfields?

The subject of this thread is the recurring theme of at least one book, and other articles/essays on this subject but I'm not even sure where to begin here. Let me start with...

1. The Italian reproduction P-53 is the most over-represented firearm, as well as being one of the least correct "out of the box" in the US Civil War enactment hobby. This point is beyond serious debate. There is a cottage industry dedicated solely to making historical feature or "accuracy modifications" to (de-farbing) this model.

2. Re: Mr Daley's post on 250,000 Italian repro P-53s reportedly sold by a field merchant. To add to Paul Calloway's skepticism on the reliability of that figure...Serial numbers on the barrel of reproduction firearms give excellent insight into the number of firearms produced and sold over the course of the last 20 to 25 years as they are progressively numbered in a linear fashion, meaning 10,001 followed by 10,002 and so on. As far as I know none of the Italian manufacturers are beyond the low-to-mid five figures (ie: 30,000s) yet for any model.

3. When Geoff Walden was an Assistant Editor and wrote for The Watchdog he provided product feedback and received a commitment from Euroarms president Paolo Amali to make suggested improvements to their P-53 based on the information in his excellent monograph "Authenticizing Your Reproduction Enfield". That mongraph first written in 1985, and updated at various points in time was and still remains the baseline research on the subject for the Civil War enactment community. This "commitment" from Euroarms was 13 or 14 years ago now. I discussed much the same topic with both Taylors & Co as US importers for Armi-Chiappa (Armi Sport) and Euroarms of America while doing research for a book (The Civil War Musket) a few years ago, with the same promises made by both manufacturers and the same lack of results. Bottom line: DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH FOR A BETTER ITALIAN MADE REPRODUCTION P-53. And don't feel obligated to buy one. There are alternatives.

4. Two band rifles are very much under-represented in the hobby. Most here would probably agree with me that the Watchdog publication Columbia Rifles Research Compendium 2nd Edition is a very good one volume book on the AoP. However, one criticism that has been brought to our attention is that readers could well conclude from the firearms section that the soldiers in the AoP were solely armed with 3 band muskets and rifle-muskets. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. For example, when General US Grant called up the Heavy Artillery units to reinforce the infantry during the 1864 Overland Campaign, they marched out of Washington, DC armed with US 1841 percussion rifles.

In terms of total numbers of US 1841s there were many, many more than 30,000 produced. There were 25,000 US 1841 rifles produced alone on contract from Robbins & Lawrence, not including 20,000 from Remington, 22,500 from Whitneyville and 25, 296 from the US Armory at Harpers Ferry. If my math is right, this adds up to 92,296. There was also a small contract of 5,000 made by Tryon of Philadelphia, 1,000 of which were sent to Texas. Additionally there were Confederate copies of the US 1841 pattern being produced throughout the war by various southern contractors like Mendenhall, Jones & Gardner, J.P. Murray and Dixon, Nelson & Company. A rough estimate could conservatively be made at 100,000 US 1841s and variants available and in use during the US Civil War. The 9th VA carried their US 1841s to the high water mark of the Confederacy at Gettysburg during Pickett's Charge. Jim Mayo may want to chime in with any details I may have missed there. There are a number of examples of contractor produced and CS copy US 1841s in The Fuller Gun Collection at CHCH (Chickamauga/Chattanooga) National Battlefield Museum.

There is a very decent reproduction of the US 1841 percussion rifle made by Euroarms. It is certainly a better reproduction "out of the box" than the P-53s, however it is in the minority. The two band reproduction Enfield rifle is actually what would have been called a "Naval Rifle", but even of that model it is not a very good reproduction. The 1862-1863 Remington Contract Rifles (modern nicknamed Zouave) are completely anachronistic, having spent the war years unissued, gathering dust in Watervliet Arsenal. And there are numerous two band rifles for which there are no reproduction offered, ie: US 1855 rifles (Harpers Ferry), Fayetteville rifles and so on.

5. My comrade Tom Ezell has previously shared information suggesting that it is the distance of the bolster from the ear drum of the front rank soldier soldier that dictates the "safety" of two band rifles when used by the rear rank. I think the key distance was 13 inches? Anyway, it has nothing to do with the number of barrel bands. This is just a myth or some form of "mainstream" misinformation that allegedly originated in an attempt to exclude the use of the aforementioned anachronistic "Zouave" rifles. Who knows? There should be no issues for those who do NPS living histories and/or EFUBU.

6. Lastly, isn't the real issue on firearm choice the "historical accuracy" of the overall impression? As Charles Heath indicated, this information is often provided in conjunction with other specifics about the event. Even if not provided, this kind of information isn't a mystery. For example, An Introduction to Civil War Small Arms by Coates & Thomas has an appendix on what units were issued particular firearms. Another good source is Todds Military Equipage. Shouldn't the final decision on what arms to use be based on what was originally issued to the unit being portrayed at the time of the event, to the extent that is possible? Granted, it depends on the unit and theater of war, but as an over-generalization it can often be accomplished with a smoothbore musket for early war, and whatever rifle or rifle-musket was issued later. As Todd Watts points out, the unit we both normally fall in with was issued a variety of "US" smoothbore muskets (models not specified) early in the war, and by April 1862, P-53 Enfields. Arguably, it could be harder for others and some compromises are probably necessary. And if that's the case, in the interest of some balance, consider another choice besides an Enfield.

Or I could be missing the boat again.

[1stMaine]

Re: Too Many Enfields?

Comrade Barry,

For what it's worth, when the 1st Maine Heavy Artillery was called up in '64, they were carrying Enfield rifle-muskets.

The 7th Maine, however, DID use M1841's until they were mustered out in mid of '64. They wre some of the contract ones made in Windsor, Vt.

The 4th Maine carried Austrian .54 calibre rifles from dec of 1861 until they, too, were mustered out in 64.

Respects,