The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Have you seen this piece in-person? This photograph seems to indicate that the bluing is not intact.


The article makes not mention of the presence/absence of bluing.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Have you seen this piece in-person? This photograph seems to indicate that the bluing is not intact.


The article makes not mention of the presence/absence of bluing.

John,

It seems I have put my foot in my mouth...having made the assumption from the first pic (and not a very good one) that the blueing was in tact...that said, the second image (which you posted) shows that the area of the barrel with proof marks is completely devoid of any blueing.

I still highly recommend the article, even if my lack of attention to detail (blindness) on the pics, lead me to make such a bold statement (about the blueing being intact).

Paul

[Todd Watts]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

The real test of bluing is under bands and under the barrel, especially the breech area. It is next to impossible to really know whether a barrel was rust blued the old ways unless you get into the hidden crevaces that would not have been handled. Also, when wanting to know if a lock is/was color-cased, you need to look behind it where it was never worn.

The breech area of the musket, back where the prrofs and gauge marks are was roughly used by cap blasts and collected a lot of corrossive soot that was not usually cleaned away well. Pits formed (see picture) which collected and held even more soot and moisture, sweat and acidic hand oils. No bluing, especially the old mercuric rusts can stand up to that treatment long before it turns gray, a color we now call patina.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Hallo!

Or oxidizes further to "plum" then to "brown."

Curt

[lukegilly13]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

This thread is HUGE so please excuse if this has been posted. I was considering defarbing my own springfield (with little gunsmith experience) and I decided against it. Here's why....I can order a "kit rifle" from Euroarms (enfield costing around $350, springfield $375) and the stock comes unfinished. I can stain with whatever I want. I can actually order the barrel unfinished and do that myself as well. The bands are unfinshed and need to be "smoothed" as the edges are raw. Would this be easier to defarb? The problem of non-period markings (in metal parts) would still be there...but tremendous time and money saved on the stock and bands...right?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Hallo!

IMHO, yes, it IS cheaper in the long run NOT to pay for Italain workmen to do things you are going to undo or redo anyways.

However, "assembling" and "de-farbing" "kits" generally has a prerequisite of the "kit-builder" having a few necessary tools, the skill and knowledge to use them, and a basic understanding of what the "de-farb" work entails and ow to get there.

The other factor is that you would still have to pay a "service" to have the barrel proofs and stock cartouches that are missing added.

So, while I recommend kit building, or "de-farbing" already used guns that have taken the "depreciation," such work is for some but not universally for everyone.

I am reminded of an old friend of mine who was a barrel and stock maker, and decided to become a custom gun "builder." For the first few years, he was one of the few lads I knew who could take $600 worth of parts and build a $200 gun.

Curt

[lukegilly13]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

For the first few years, he was one of the few lads I knew who could take $600 worth of parts and build a $200 gun.

Curt

I LOVE that quote! You summarized exactly what I was thinking. Numerous times I have read sutlers saying that their material producers will not produce materials as bad as the confederate government did and that their reproductions are as close as possible without creating a shoddy product. There are not many reenactors out there (me included) who would be willing to put their gun investment through what soldiers had to put theirs through. Also, i'm not sure I want to stand in the ranks next to someone firing moose loads who has "shaved a little here and there" off their weapon who had no idea what they were doing. Where is the cut-off between being authentic and being dangerous here? Insurance for events is expensive enough without increasing the number of exploded weapons. To anyone new at this, please seek AT LEAST guidance and supervision of a professional before "defarbing" structural parts.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Hallo!

"Where is the cut-off between being authentic and being dangerous here? Insurance for events is expensive enough without increasing the number of exploded weapons."

IMHO...

Oh, somewhere between the borders of India and Pakistan, and some events.
But I won't beat that Dead Horse again for the time being... ;)

Seriously, it would be hard to reduce the barrel of an Italian reproduction arm down to the point it would burst with a blank charge or two and still fit into an Italian stock.

Curt
Whose once took heat for failing inspection on an Enfield with the most beautifully formed, large, ring half way down the barrel...

[Craig L Barry]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Speaking of Enfield de-farbing, Todd Watts has started doing the commercial Birmingham riveted brass nosecap, or at least mimicking the appearance of the riveted nosecap. For those who really want the details right...As far as building the Euroarms from a kit, it really depends on your woodworking skill and how much time you have to finish the roughed out parts. It is not "difficult" just time consuming. I would not recommend staining the wood, but rather seeing how it looks with a couple coats of boiled linseed oil. Keep in mind the original stocks are darker now, after accumulating 150 yrs of dirt and handling. You want to duplicate the way the weapon looked when it was issued. The stocks were not usually stained before being treated with BLO.

[Todd Watts]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Be aware that my "mimic" of the rivitted nose caps will permanently afix the nose caps to the stocks, just as the rivitted version does. To rivit them right would take rivits of the right size which I have been unable to locate, and a shaped anvil against which to swage them. Again, that is not easily located and is too much trouble to create. I have only done 1 so far, but will soon do a couple more to fill orders already made. (I am going to have to increase my prices as well as this is adding more labor and parts, but mainly due to the overall increase in living we are all seeing these days. I have not figured it out yet with BRI, but by summer I think it will have to be done.)

[COLDSTEEL1865]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

THANKS TO ALL FOR THE INFO ON WHERE TO GO GO FOR DEFARBING.
Another question do they adjust or find bayonets that will fit the musket in my case is an 1861 Springfield i have been to sutlers at different events and cant seem to find one that fits right. thanks again


COLDSTEEL1865
"HAVE NO MERCY GIVE THEM COLDSTEEL"

[Todd Watts]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

When you order from Blockade Runner, they find one that fits in their inventory or have me fit one to the gun.

[LonestarRifles]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

For sanding the finish on the stock before applying the oil, what grade sand paper is best and easiest on the wood?
Thanks,
Patrick Smith

[Todd Watts]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

To sand correctly, you need to use different grits. Always sanding with the grain, use a coarse grit like a 60 or 100 grit and rub firmly but not so firmly that you rip grain strands out. This grit gets the old finish off and light marks out. Steam-out any old dings you want removed now. Then, move to a 150 grit and then to a 220 grit. That is about as far as you need to go for Civil War stocks. If you want a finer finish you can go on to 320 and 400 grits, but I do not think they did that much back then. They also did not fill the grain back then on military stocks. When I do mine, I stop at 220 grit and whisker the wood by dampening its surface and allowing it to air-dry a couple of hours. This raises dust and whiskers from pores and grain creases. I then lightly sand again with 220 or 32o (whichever is handy) just to remove the rough-texture caused by raised whiskers. You can do this as many times as you want, but I find once is generally good enough for a Civil War stock. On modern stocks, I do go to finer grits, fill grain and whisker multiple times, but this gives a higher lustre finish than any military stock builder would have cared about offering.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Just to chime in, I usually give it a once over with steel wool after the final sanding. I don't know it seems to get the dust off the stock and prep it for the oil finish. When it is ready for the handrubbed BLO finish, the first coat soaks in fast, and you get a sense of how the wood is going to look. With steel wool buffing between coats, it helps manage the "shine".