The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

[Kykeydet12]

Enfields: Armi sport vr. Euroarms

Pards:
as the title may tell you . this is a thead to help new reenactors figure out witch brand rifle to buy, post your thoughts on each brand the good and bad , how reliable , authentic and anything else you wish to know or tell

[Doug Potter]

Re: Armi sport vrs. Euroarms

Well neither one is great I have a EA I don't like the finish on the barrel, I like the Armi-Sport finish better but I think both makers have about the same quality, or lack there of, if you want a good orignal quality reproduction rifle If I had the money I would buy the parts and have one put togather with an orignal lock good reproduction stock and Barrel, like anything quality is out there but it cost money,
I really like my Armi-Sport Enfield defarbed by Company Quatermaster it has a much tighter lock then my EA Springfield, I have seriously considered trading my Zimmerman defarbed EA on a new 61 made by Armisport, and starting over.
I had one of the first Navy Arms Springfields made when they first started making them back in the late 70's I Paid if I remember right $165.00 for it new, I wish I still had it, it was twice the rifle that my EA is.
I don't know if Navy Arms still has the same quality that they used to.
or if they make a 61 my navy arms was a 63 model.

[hardtack1864]

Re: Armi sport vrs. Euroarms

I would go with a Armi Sport enfield because it's cheaper then euroarms, it is much lighter then Euroarm rifles, a bit more authentic, and the enfield has far less problems then the repro Springfields, but it would be a good idea to get the musket defarbed or just go with Zimmerman's famous Rifles.

[KentuckyReb]

Re: Armi sport vrs. Euroarms

Bear in mind, if you're going with a '42 Springfield, AS is your only choice. Mine's actually quite a solid, business-like weapon, well-made with good fit and finish of metal parts and good wood-to-metal fit. The stock wood's a little too reddish, being European Walnut, but Linseed oil is taking care of that nicely. Gotta be one of the best decisions ArmiSport ever made, getting rid of that godawful urethane coat on their stocks. I got it stamped with correct inspection cartouches earlier this year, gonna have it defarbed soon as I can before the season picks back up. But if you're looking for a good, strong smoothbore repro, AS is the only source for the '42, and fortunately they do it well.

[rogue]

Re: Armi sport vrs. Euroarms

Pards:
as the title may tell you . this is a thead to help new reenactors figure out witch brand rifle to buy, post your thoughts on each brand the good and bad , how reliable , authentic and anything else you wish to know or tell

If you are not in a hurry, look into the model '61 that Dixie Gun Works sold. I use past tense as I understand they are no longer being made, and are limited to stock at hand. They were Japanese made and could be had finished or in a kit. They were mucj closer in weight and feel than either of the Italians mentioned, did not have a super heavy barrel either, and a slimmer stock, again closer to the original. They were made by Miroku I believe. Dixie now sells Italians, so if you call them make sure you have them understand you are looking for a Japanese product.
Vicka :D

Full name on every post please FIRST WARNING. JS Moderator

[Yellowhammer]

Re: Armi sport vrs. Euroarms

Okay, there is some info in this thread that needs clarified.

Rob,

Step one in asking a question is to learn the right vocabulary. None of the longarms being discussed in this thread are "rifles." Speaking in general terms, the US M1842 is a musket while arms like the US M1861 and P53 Enfield are rifle-muskets. When referring to Civil War firearms, "rifle" typically refers to shorter barrelled rifles like the Enfield rifle, US M1841 "Mississippi" and the like.

Sean,

In your post, you state:

"I would go with a Armi Sport enfield because it's cheaper then euroarms, it is much lighter then Euroarm rifles, a bit more authentic, and the enfield has far less problems then the repro Springfields, but it would be a good idea to get the musket defarbed or just go with Zimmerman's famous Rifles."

I disagree with several points in this statement. While it is true that Armi-Sport products are generally less expensive and somewhat lighter than the corresponding Euroarms products, I disagree completely that the "enfield has far less problems than the repro Springfields." In fact, I find the opposite to be true.

In my experience, Euroarms guns are higher quality, tend to be less prone to mechanical problems, and are less prone to rust. I've also had fewer misfires from the Euroarms sold guns I've owned than the Armi-Sports. Last, I'm also more confident about Euroarms products for live-firing. Yes, there are trade-offs in regards to authenticity but most of these can be fixed during the defarbing process.

Getting back to Rob's question, the first step is to find out which arm is correct for your unit's impression. If it's the M1842, you only have one option as Micah noted. If it is the M1861 Springfield or P1853 Enfield, take a look at what is on the market and make a choice based on your preference.

[Bill]

Re: Armi sport vrs. Euroarms

[QUOTE=Yellowhammer]Okay, there is some info in this thread that needs clarified.

"In my experience, Euroarms guns are higher quality, tend to be less prone to mechanical problems, and are less prone to rust. I've also had fewer misfires from the Euroarms sold guns I've owned than the Armi-Sports. Last, I'm also more confident about Euroarms products for live-firing. Yes, there are trade-offs in regards to authenticity but most of these can be fixed during the defarbing process."

John,

For what it's worth, I've had the exact opposite results. I own an Armi-Sport M-1861 and an Euroarms Richmond rifle-musket. My Armi-Sport shoots very well, while the Euroarms key-holes about half the time. My guess is the real problem with all these weapons is lack of quality control. I think you can find both excellent rifles and dogs from both manufactures. It's just a matter of looking at what's available.

IMHO, the M-1861 Springfields are more prone to misfires then Enfields when firing blanks, because of the design of the original weapon. That 90 degree turn in the firing channel on the M-1861 tends to get clogged up pretty quickly.

[markmason]

Re: Armi sport vrs. Euroarms

This could be hashed out and kicked about all da lib long day..

I have a EuroArms Enfield RIFLED-MUSKET that is now, 10 years old, defarbed by Zimmerman. Very solid gun and lived fired many times witout a breakdown.

Bad points on this particular arm ?

1) Incorrect barrel bands (cost to replace with correct bands $125)
2) Weight (compared to original)


Your very truely

Mark Mason

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Armi sport vrs. Euroarms

Hallo Kameraden!

In all of these comparisons between reproductions, the goal should be comparing the modern reproductions against the original firearm rather than each other, and then which modern reproduction can be most easily and economically modified or "remedied" (why and how) to appear most like the original.

And in brief, it appears both Italian companies have made changes over the years. My 1986 purchased Euroarms is lighter, less bulky, less squarish, less chunky, etc, etc., than what is on the rack today. So, some of the "used" guns for sale out there can be a bit different over the last 20 years or so.

Compared to an original, to list only two bad points on a Euroarm (OR Armi Sport for that matter) is a bit "brief."

While clarifying a point or two, additional period vocabulary:

The "Enfield" (Pattern 1853 Rifle-Musket, Third Model) is not a "rifled-musket."

The period use of the term is for a musket that has been later rifled, such as that which was done to some M1822 and M1842 Muskets.

(Not to mention when a rear sight is added, they can become "Rifled and Sighted." )

Sure do miss our Forum Archives as the fine points of these questions and discussions are well recorded...

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Kykeydet12]

Re: Armi sport vrs. Euroarms

pards:
actually I used those terms because they are easier for everyone to understand , some people might get confused, if I offended you , then I am sorry. myself I am leaning towrads the armi sport brand because of the price and from what most reenactors tell me reliability , as far as wieght I am not concerned as long as there is no extensive wieght difference between it and the original's,
the odd thing is , in most units around in our area (kentucky, west virginia , and ohio ) not everyone in a unit has the same rifle, you'll see a mixture of enfields ,springfields, richmond,even a couple pistols here and there. But all the guys in our unit carry springfields , when we can't work with our cannons, every one owns a sprinfield , and our commander(marshall steen of Steen cannons) owns a collection of around 50 firearms, maybe more!

[rogue]

Re: Armi sport vrs. Euroarms

If you are not in a hurry, look into the model '61 that Dixie Gun Works sold. I use past tense as I understand they are no longer being made, and are limited to stock at hand. They were Japanese made and could be had finished or in a kit. They were mucj closer in weight and feel than either of the Italians mentioned, did not have a super heavy barrel either, and a slimmer stock, again closer to the original. They were made by Miroku I believe. Dixie now sells Italians, so if you call them make sure you have them understand you are looking for a Japanese product.
Vicka :D

Full name on every post please FIRST WARNING. JS Moderator

Been a while since the website worked with me, so I used a name from another site, sorry. I still like the Japanese 1861 Springfield from Dixie Gun Works with its 90 degree shooting channel problem better than an Italian.
Steve Sullivan

[privstull]

Re: Armi sport vrs. Euroarms

Does anyone know exactly why the Euroarms is more heavy than Armi Sport? Also, would one be more authentic in weight than the other and why? The reason being is mine is a Euroarms and is more heavy than the Armi sport and I have been qurious for a while over these 2 questions. Thanks.

[markmason]

Re: Armi sport vrs. Euroarms

DEPARTURE OF THE FIFTY-THIRD
This rgiment left Camp Morton yesterday afternoon and marched down to the Armory when, after changing their arms, they were marched to the depot and took a special train upon one of the railroads leading toward the scene of Genral Halleck's military operations.
The regiment is ........The men are all thoroughly equipped, clothed and armed, the arms being the celebrated Enfield rifles.

Indianapolis Journal, March 15, 1862

mark mason
Tarwater Mess
GHTI

Hallo Mark! AC Forum rules require that one's avatar image be of oneself and not a graphic, cartoon, or image of someone else. Please edit yours to reflect the actual you. Thank you. Curt-Heinrich Schmidt, Moderator

[LibertyHallVols]

Enfield Reproductions

Folks,

This thread began as an amorphous blob, but seems to be shaping into the ages-old comparison of the two better-known vendors of reproduction Enfield rifle-muskets (yes, as Curt said... Enfield "3-banders" are "rifle-muskets", not "rifles" or "rifleD-muskets").

Although this discussion is taking place in the "Camp of Instruction", the same standards apply with regard to the judgement of reproductions.

*** Compare the reproduction to ORIGINALS, not other reproductions. It makes no difference how one reproduction compares to another. Rather, we should be concerned how close each reproduction compares to the original article from which it was reproduced.

The same goes for boots, drawers, caps, hats, belts, shirts, jackets, frocks, smocks, roundabouts, or anything else you can name.

For example...
Weight: Find out how much originals weigh, and compare this with the weight of the reproduction. The statement "Euroarms are heavier Armi-Sports" contains no useful information... Heck, it borders on content-free speach, as far as I'm concerned!

I would like to see this discussion bolstered by some solid information, rather than speculation and repro-to-repro comparison. If this cannot take place, I see no usefulness to this thread.

[Minieball577]

Re: Armi sport vrs. Euroarms

DEPARTURE OF THE FIFTY-THIRD
This rgiment left Camp Morton yesterday afternoon and marched down to the Armory when, after changing their arms, they were marched to the depot and took a special train upon one of the railroads leading toward the scene of Genral Halleck's military operations.
The regiment is ........The men are all thoroughly equipped, clothed and armed, the arms being the celebrated Enfield rifles.

Indianapolis Journal, March 15, 1862

A number of the Indiana Regiments were in fact armed, or partially armed, with Enfield RIFLES, 1856 Enfield Short (two band) Rifles, with Saber bayonets. Particularly so in the early part of the conflict, say through mid 1862. Among them were the 11th IN, 25 IN, 53 IN, and 63 IN Regiments. Photographic evidence exists of the 11th IN, in their three-month grey uniforms with this arm. I am unaware of the photographic record of the other regiments.