The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Looking for P-53 Markings of 1st model?

Hallo Herr Robert!

Actually, being a Luddite, I do not know how to post images. Sniff, sniff. :-(
But I will look into it.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Looking for P-53 Markings of 1st model?

Grrrrrrr!

Its one of those things, if you were here I could show you in 2 seconds, and I cannot find the thread explaining how to do it.

Is there any in depth books on Enfields and their development? I am probably going to get one at some point and I would like to know as much about them before doing so.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Looking for P-53 Markings of 1st model?

Hallo Kamerad!

I am fond of Christopher Roads' THE BRITISH SOLDIER'S FIREARM 1850-1864, (although his focus was largely British government made Enfields), IMHO, the "best" available reference...

The 1964 book has been reprinted by R & R Books in 1994, I still see it around, but I don't know if further editions or R & R's first.

For a "quickie pocket guide," I like De Witt Bailey's 1971/1972 BRITISH MILITARY FIREARMS 1815-1865. It is harder to find. I picked up my copy in England in 1996.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Johan Steele]

Re: Looking for P-53 Markings of 1st model?

IIRC the P53 in the Crimea were mostly in the hands of the Highlanders weren't they? I seem to recall a book on the Highlanders wich had some good info on the 1st Generation 1853's... This sucks... I no longer have the title as it was on my old computer that died of virus overload...

There is a book out there on the Highlanders, IIRC it had a good selection of photos of weapons carried in the period from the Napoleonic Wars thru the Boer War. Maybe someone here can recall the title and author.

[Charles W. Mood]

Re: Looking for P-53 Markings of 1st model?

FYI...The Rifle Shoppe (www.therifleshoppe.com) makes castings off of original rifle parts. They carry the lock plate for the 1st Model Enfield dated either 1854 or 1855.

I don't know it would fit an Armi or Euroarms Enfield, but at $14.95 it might be worth it to try as it would already be properly marked. I've ordered a 3rd Model lock plate, as well as the correct 3rd Model Rifle Bands to try on my Euroarms Enfield, but I have not received ithem yet. They warn you up front that shipping may take up to 30-90 days.

Has anyone else ever tried this?
V/R
Charles W. Mood
115th New York Vols

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Looking for P-53 Markings of 1st model?

Hallo Herr Charles!

Welcome to the AC Forum!

"Has anyone else ever tried this?" :-)

That may be why there is a SEARCH button? :-(

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3511&highlight=Rifle+Shoppe

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt, Moderator

[Bill Cross]

Lodgewood

My experience with Lodgewood has been disappointing overall.

I ordered one of their defarbed Enfields (complete with lockplate, correct sling swivels, etc.), and the bayonet lug/from sight broke off TWICE the first time I stacked arms with it. Each time they were nice enough to re-solder it, but I had to ship it back (not inexpensive). The second repair took months, they admitted they forgot about it, and the barrel came back rusty and the stock broke in shipping. Fortunately I was going to reblue it, so I was only annoyed, and they sent me a new stock (again, I had to ship it back). They may have compensated me for shipping some of the times, I just don't recall.

But the "one piece" Springfield rammer I purchased from them a year or two ago broke in two pieces at "Into the Wilderness" last month. Turns out it was not one piece as promised, but braised together from two pieces the fit inside the other. The only difference between it and the Italian repro that came with the gun was it was braised and not screwed together.

The Lodgewood folks are very nice, and pleasant to deal with. But their products are flawed in my estimation, and so one should at least be aware of the problems when ordering. They get busy going to events, and things can take quite awhile to happen. I was hesitant to say anything in public because they get such high marks, I assumed it was me. But the broken rammer was the proverbial last straw (which cost me $20 to have welded and doesn't look entirely right because of the extra metal which does not match in color).

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Ramrod Trivia...

Hallo Kameraden!

The myth of the "one piece ramrod," and the number of vendors and customers buying them make for a story all their own.
The fault was not so much Lodgewood's, except for their seeming (?) to be selling the "so-called" one-piece ramrods so recently.
I have never been able to track down the maker or makers of the "two piece, one piece ramrods that foisted them upon unsuspecting vendors and unsuspecting customers- but many quality and reputable vendors and customers "got burned." (I did myself from the "Horse Soldier" in G-burg before they "reposted" them as two-pieced.)

Original ramrods were two piece, with the "tulip" being joined, pinned, and brazed in a joint with the shaft ABOVE the swell. (Well, there are other problems with the repro's material, production, finishing, and function- and adding to why originals did not bend or break their ends when used to load, or to stack arms....)

Years ago, a barrel maker friend of mine briefly dabbled in a more period correct one by lathe turning the shaft to form the M1855/1861's swell as part of the shaft; and brazing and pinning the tulip head to the upper end of the swell. What the Italians seem to do to save costs is to use straight steel rod, with a cast or turned swell and tulip made as a unit- and then insert the turned down end of the shaft into a hole in the bottom of the swell, and braze it over. Obviously the weakest part of the construction is at the brazed joint....

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[billmatt04]

proper Enfield stock weight

Gentlemen,
Yet again I come to you in search of knowledge. I am curious as to what the weight of the stock of an Enfield rifle musket would be. My Euroarms seems to be very heavy and I wondered if the Armisport stock was more correct, weight-wise. Just something that has been nagging at me and I hoped that you all might be able to help.

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: proper Enfield stock weight

The extra weight comes from the barrel, not the stock. Generally, reproduction barrels tend to be thicker and/or have a different taper than original barrels. This results in more metal --> more weight.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: proper Enfield stock weight

Hallo Kamerad!

I will have to find my postal scale and get back to you. My bathroom scale says three pounds- but that could be anywhere between 2.6 and 3.0 as it measures in half pound increments.

The answer is really, IMHO, academic. BOTH the EA and AS "Enfields" run larger, more bulkier, and less "refined" that the range of originals due to a heavier barrel and to a lesser degree "more wood."
Since there is a limit to how much wood can be taken down or removed, and with an oversized, heavier barrel- one cannot short of "rebuilding" the thing match an original without having a correct "custom" one built.
And, due to the density of wood, there is also some variation in originals.
;-)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[billmatt04]

Re: proper Enfield stock weight

Thank you for your help. I had always suspected that it was the "lawyer barrles" that gave it the extra weight, but I had also read of guys shaving down their stocks when defarbing them. thanks for the help.

Matt Cassady
104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: proper Enfield stock weight

Hallo Kamerad!

Although it is just a sample of one original and one EA (I happened to have two naked stocks lying here, but am too lazy to strip down more...) ;-)

Original stock = 2.6 pounds
EA stock = 3.0 pounds

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Csayankee]

Re: proper Enfield stock weight

For what it is worth I have a EA and it is heavy. But I have picked up some AS that seemed just as heavy. And I seem EA that were light. I say it as something ot do with the manufactoring and location. But I got use to my EA and now it doens't seem too bad.

Thanks
Daniel MacInnis

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: proper Enfield stock weight

Hallo Kameraden!

According to "WEIGHT and DIMENSIONS, &c. of ARMS and AMMUNITON used in the BRITISH SERVICE in 1864 (excluding India):

The weight of the P1853 Enfield is listed at 9 pounds, 12 ounces with bayonet and 8 pounds, 14 1/2 ounces without bayonet.

The one original I pulled off the wall to weigh, for a Quickie Comparison to the "specs" was 9 pounds even, without the bayonet. (I would attribute the difference to wood density variation).

My personal radically "de-farbed," "reworked," "retroverted," "slimmed down," "semi-custom," "Swan Radical Makeovor," 1985 era Enfield weighs 9 pounds, 14 ounces without the bayonet.

Everyone may now be excused to go to the bathroom and weigh their EA or AS Enfields of the past 20 years manufactury, and compare and contrast them against the original specs.
I suspect, we will learn that Italian repros are heavier than originals.
;-)
And, the point would be? :-)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt