The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

[Charles W. Mood]

Proper Size Enfield Hammer

Gents
I have a reproduction Euroarms enfield which I am having defarbed. While defarbing will replace my incorrect barrel bands, give me period proof marks on the barrel, reshape my stock, etc... it will not include giving me a proper sized hammer. Is there a source out there for a properly sized and authentic reproduction of a Enfield hammer to upgrade my musket? I'm currently looking at either S & S Firearms or Paul Dyson, but I only have the photographs to go off of. I would appreciate the experience of those who have walked this trail ahead of me.

V/R
Charles W. Mood

[MuleyGil]

Re: Proper Size Enfield Hammer

Check with Lodgewood.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Proper Size Enfield Hammer

I don't think anyone is making a correct size repro hammer. It may be because it just isn't worth the money it would take to do it. A original hammer will not work. Too many fit problems. I tried it on my euro just to see if it would fit on the tumbler and the hole is too big. Take a look at the pictures below and compare the hammers.

(L to R). First picture is an euro arms P-56 and a original CS used Tower musket. Middle picture is a comparison between two original Towers. Both hammers have a slightly different look. The right most picture is a Parker Hale in front of an original Tower.

After looking at these pictures do you still want to spend a chunk of money on an original hammer. I don't think you will be getting much improvement for your buck.

[riptailedroarer]

Re: Proper Size Enfield Hammer

Charles, I'm no expert, but from what read the best thing to do is get a copy of Geoff Walden's booklet on defarbing enfields. the problem with hammers is that each manufacturor finished them differantly, i.e. with engaving on them or without. so it depends on weather you have a gun from L.A.C. or a Birmingham gun maker.
And as a by, if hammers were hand made wouldn't the be differ in size from gun to gun?
hope this dosn't muddy the waters to much.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Proper Size Enfield Hammer

Hallo!

Hammer sizes, exact configuration, style of checkering, type of line engraving (or absence) will vary somewhat on P1853 3rd Model "Enfields" as the Birmingham Small Arms Trade pieces were made by a variety of makers without precise or uniform "standardization."
And the London Armoury pieces have even a larger, more "robust" hammer.

Generally, though, the majority of BSAT "Enfields" one examines will have a "larger" hammer than MOST of the Italian reproductions.
The EuroArms from the 1980's tend to all have "undersized" or "thin" hammers when compared to the originals (but again, there is variation). Having have had, or have worked on nearly twenty of them, IMHO those do benefit from a hammer swap in making them look more like the mass of originals than the repro's.

I will have to dig around to see if he is still in business. A virus ate my references for a Canadian lad's website who was selling castings from a variety of originals. I had ordered a batch of five about five years ago, and received five different castings. His moulding picked up the detail REALLY well, including screwdriver dings in the backside of two as well as sub-inspector stamps. (The come finished black, so they have to be polished bright or color-case hardened depending upon one's needs).

I also tried one from The Rifle Shoppe, an excellent supply of rough castings of original parts (although order delays are quite common and often long) . I ordered one for a test, and was disapointed to receive a casting of an anemic or puny EuroArms repro EXACTLY he same as the ones on the several 1980's Euroarms I had wanted to replace.

Right now, I believe Peter Dyson & Son, Ltd, England still offer castings of Enfield parts.
But, I lasted ordered in 1987 so I canot vouch for what they may offer now. However, it is
'casting," and not "finished." Meaning it has somewhat of a "sand mould" texture and mould seam lines that need polished smooth (and color-case hardened if need be) as well as the tumbler "hole" drilled out and filed square to fit the tumbler!

http://www.peterdyson.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2epeterdyson%2eco%2euk%2fcgi%2dbin%2fss000001%2epl%3fTB%3dA%26GB%3dA%26SS%3dEnfield%26PR%3d%2d1%26PG%3d%26REFPAGE%3dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww%252epeterdyson%252eco%252euk%252facatalog%252fsearch%252ehtml%26PN%3d1&WD=enfield&PN=ENFIELD_RIFLE_parts%2ehtml%23aH148_2b#aH148_2b

Curt

[Watchdog]

Re: Proper Size Enfield Hammer

Mr. Mood,

Get a copy of Craig Barry's The Civil War Musket published buy The Watchdog Quarterly. It goes way beyond Walden's pamphlet in addressing historical feature accuracy modifications of Enfield P-53 rifle muskets (as well as US Model muskets and rifle-muskets).

The Watchdog is an appoved AC vendor. E-mail me at thedog@watchdog review.com for details.

[Third Mainer]

Re: Proper Size Enfield Hammer

Try Peter Dyson, he is your best bet. He sells a hammer that is as cast from an original. Unfortunately it needs to have the hole for the tumbler drilled and filed, as well as needing to be finished. However Mr. Dyson is top notch to deal with. I ordered one and since he was out of them he sent me an original heavy hammer for the same price. The hammer was in unused, excelllent shape. I'll definately order from him again.
Mike Pearson
Shapely Hammer Enthusiast

[Jimmayo]

Re: Proper Size Enfield Hammer

I ordered one and since he was out of them he sent me an original heavy hammer for the same price. The hammer was in unused, excelllent shape. I'll definately order from him again.
Mike Pearson
Shapely Hammer Enthusiast

Did the hammer have the hole for the tumbler? If so, did it fit? I tried an original on a euroarms and it was not even close to fitting on the tumbler.

[Bill Shea]

Re: Proper Size Enfield Hammer

Lovely pictures Jim. Good lock plate details as well as hammers

Thank you,
Bill Shea
5NHV

[MuleyGil]

Re: Proper Size Enfield Hammer

Was the tumbler hole in the original hammer too big or too small for the repro tumbler?

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Proper Size Enfield Hammer

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt's experiences mirror my own with the Rifle Shoppe. It was not a quality part and the castings were very rough. He is correct in his other comments as well.

James River Armory (www.jamesriverarmory.com) has had castings made of the so-called "fat" hammer or large hammer that was common to the 1860s Birmingham commercial P-53, and it is made to fit the arbor shaft of the Italian reproductions. They are finished as well. The JRA website has additional contact info. I know they sell lockplates separately so presumably the hammers would be available ala carte as well.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Proper Size Enfield Hammer

Hallo!

In their "defense.." well just a little.

IMHO The Rifle Shoppe illustrates their excellent catalog with photos or original guns and original parts even though what one typically receives is are "out-of-the-mold: castings (that require cleaning and finishing, and in the case of lock parts and springs usually always hardening or hardening and tempering..)

And, IMHO, they usually do not maintain an inventory. Meaning, if one happens to order a part or parts that is "in the bin," they arrive within days. Since, IMHO, they do not stock much of an inventory one has to wait until their is sufficient orders to warrant a foundry production run or batch- and that can takes months or years.

And somethings seem to just be annoying from a customer service POV. In all my experience, they never once answered their phone or replied to a left message. And the part(s) arrive when they arrive without explanation as to delay or possibility of delivery dates.

But they DO OFFER some great and "unusual" gun stuff not available elsewhere if one does not mind the real risk of delay.

Curt

[Third Mainer]

Re: Proper Size Enfield Hammer

Sorry for not responding sooner. The original hammer was of the unengraved heavy type and fit perfectly on my Armi-Sport with only a shim on the underside of the tumbler shaft. The angle of the hammer striking the cone is slightly off but still worked fine. I'm planning to turn the rifle into a Potts and Hunt.
Mike Pearson

[FlaYankee]

Re: Proper Size Enfield Hammer

Fellas;

I agree with Craig. Last I chatted with Marc @ James River, he did have some castings for hammers, however they were unfinished, and he hadn't been able to get to them as of yet. I plan on ordering one here in about a week if they're ready. He did ask me which type of musket mine was; (Euroarms) so he could make it to fit the tumbler. Man, I've had so much defarbing work done to my Enfield, I don't recognize it anymore:D
I have also taken the time to send off my barrel to Lodgewood, to have a more authentic rear site attatched. The hammer and rear site should be the finishing touches, until something else comes along
Good luck with your defarbing... and hammer search!;)
Mike (Third Mainer); Here is a picture of a Potts and Hunt Enfield thats for sale on the Shiloh relics website; http://www.shilohrelics.com/cgi-bin/...Item.asp?92054
Kindest Regards;

[Jimmayo]

Re: Proper Size Enfield Hammer

Here is the other style P&H lock with engraving. As a general rule the engraved version was used primary on the short rifles and the non engraved example referenced in the post above was used on the P-53. If anyone has seen them used the other way I would appreciate knowing about it. A little word of caution, if you are going to have a firearm defarbed, do your research. There are mistakes being made.